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  1. #381
    Are we taking War Machine on every fight in Heroic NH?

  2. #382
    High Overlord Creraria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hundor View Post
    Are we taking War Machine on every fight in Heroic NH?
    yes go ahead and use it on Krosus/trilliax.
    Jokes aside:
    Try it on fights with adds, if you can sustain 30-40% uptime go ahead and use it.

  3. #383
    Pit Lord Seramore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hundor View Post
    Are we taking War Machine on every fight in Heroic NH?
    Everything but Trilliax, Krosus, and Star Augur. You can get away with using it on Star Augur but Endless Rage will be overall more beneficial.

  4. #384
    Quote Originally Posted by Seramore View Post
    Everything but Trilliax, Krosus, and Star Augur. You can get away with using it on Star Augur but Endless Rage will be overall more beneficial.
    Elisande as well; WM tends to be too short to do any good, especially with the speed buff and her own teleporting bullshit.

    Tichondrius/Botanist are optional depending on your strategy and level of raid difficulty.

  5. #385
    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    Neither, you continue the rotation: Execute - FS - BT.

    The reason people are using it is because I found it to be a better way to juggle Frothing Berserker during the Execute phase. No, the guide hasn't been updated, because my focus has been getting ready for 7.2 content (which is going to change everything all over again), and it's actually a much smaller difference than it may appear to be. The worst part about it is that it requires a very good sense of timing both for your rage expenditure/BC CD and the targets time to die.
    Juggle as in make it entirely circular at max rage to exe -> FS -> BT to keep frothing up perpetually?

  6. #386
    Quick question about the AoE rotation. When I look at the Top HC Logs on Botanist I notice that all the top logs barely use Raging Blow in the last phase, which is most of the time 3 "bosses". Can you explain why they no longer use Raging Blow? Even though your guide says you should still use Raging Blow and that makes sense. I am just surprised by these logs and how they perform their rotation, (I am looking at people without the belt)

    Also one more question: I find it hard to see this on Logs but do you use Raging Blow when Enraged and at 100 rage? I know your guide says you shouldn't.I try to look at % wasted rage on Logs but its kinda varying
    Last edited by MithosX; 2017-03-21 at 02:33 AM.

  7. #387
    Quote Originally Posted by Jalopy View Post
    Juggle as in make it entirely circular at max rage to exe -> FS -> BT to keep frothing up perpetually?
    No, I mean you're actually going to pull the icon off your bars and move it around; once you get really good, you can do it with two or even three abilities at a time. It's a lot of fun during downtime between pulls.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MithosX View Post
    Quick question about the AoE rotation. When I look at the Top HC Logs on Botanist I notice that all the top logs barely use Raging Blow in the last phase, which is most of the time 3 "bosses". Can you explain why they no longer use Raging Blow? Even though your guide says you should still use Raging Blow and that makes sense. I am just surprised by these logs and how they perform their rotation, (I am looking at people without the belt)

    Also one more question: I find it hard to see this on Logs but do you use Raging Blow when Enraged and at 100 rage? I know your guide says you shouldn't.I try to look at % wasted rage on Logs but its kinda varying
    Using Wrecking Ball, though it's one of the very few fights in which WB is worthwhile.

    You can use Raging Blow if Enraged and at 100 rage (before Frothing). The rotation is cyclic, so it sometimes happens, sometimes doesn't, and you shouldn't try to engineer the situation to make it happen every time.

  8. #388
    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    No, I mean you're actually going to pull the icon off your bars and move it around; once you get really good, you can do it with two or even three abilities at a time. It's a lot of fun during downtime between pulls.
    You're a meme. I'm too lazy to do this without you spoonfeeding me so I'll just wait for you to update to 7.2 since it won't matter until then anyway.
    Last edited by Jalopy; 2017-03-21 at 10:20 PM.

  9. #389
    I'm caught betweel a second relic of the same quality(inreased damage during bc) and another one that increases rampage damage but is 20 ilvls lower(so 6 weapon ilvls down).Which one is better?Btw how do skills scale with ilvl or ap?Thanks.

  10. #390
    Quote Originally Posted by smn View Post
    I'm caught betweel a second relic of the same quality(inreased damage during bc) and another one that increases rampage damage but is 20 ilvls lower(so 6 weapon ilvls down).Which one is better?Btw how do skills scale with ilvl or ap?Thanks.
    BC is a better trait than Rampage, so if it's higher ilvl and boosts the better trait, definitely stick with it. The traits stack, so having three BC traits isn't wasteful.

  11. #391
    What is the most efficient way to bind DoS? I'm not a macro guy and generally only use them for focus targeting, but I do find that occasionally during hectic situations I have trouble activating Avatar/BC simultaneously, then getting Rampage activated before hitting DoS. With most CDs a 0.5s delay between activations isn't a big deal but it is with BC. Is there a sequence macro that works for this, or is it just getting the sequence down to muscle memory?

  12. #392
    Quote Originally Posted by MithosX View Post
    Quick question about the AoE rotation. When I look at the Top HC Logs on Botanist I notice that all the top logs barely use Raging Blow in the last phase, which is most of the time 3 "bosses". Can you explain why they no longer use Raging Blow?
    I am no way a top DPS but:
    RB hits for 434,056
    WW hits for 118,379 x 3

    Looks like 355K is way less then 434K but:

    1) Naj'entus's Vertebrae - "If Whirlwind hits 3 or more enemies, it hits them 1 additional times.". This makes WW 473K already (I am stupid, i still don't know if Legendary belt should double the damage or just add one extra hit to main target)
    2) Wrecking Ball talent - "Your attacks have a chance to make your next Whirlwind deal 250% increased damage."

    Additionally, in highly erratic P3 WW allows you just mindlessly spam button, without bothering too much if you current target is in front of you or in melee range. If it is not your RB wont hit at all, but WW still have good chances to reach something inside 8 range and do same damage.

  13. #393
    Just as a self spot check, I made a change without much thought because it seemed to make sense without simming.

    I changed out my 880 fire relic with Unrivaled Strength (BC) trait for a 905 Wrath and Fury (RB), I figured a +25ilvl increase to my relic/weapon damage plus a second best trait would be a dps gain regardless. Someday I will be less terrible at using SimC and will not feel the need to post stupid questions
    Last edited by spyderfyre; 2017-03-22 at 08:42 PM.

  14. #394
    Quote Originally Posted by spyderfyre View Post
    Just as a self spot check, I made a change without much thought because it seemed to make sense without simming.

    I changed out my 880 fire relic with Unrivaled Strength (BC) trait for a 905 Wrath and Fury (RB), I figured a +25ilvl increase to my relic/weapon damage plus a second best trait would be a dps gain regardless. Someday I will be less terrible at using SimC and will not feel the need to post stupid questions
    With relic ilvl's, every 5 relic ilvls is 1 weapon ilvl. So that's a 5 ilvl increase on your weapon.
    Armory
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    You are not the mount you ride. You are not the contents of your bank.
    You are not your epic purples. You are not a special and unique snowflake.
    You are the all-grinding, all-farming crap of Azeroth.

  15. #395
    The Patient kolopotho's Avatar
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    This might seem obvious but should the cooldown rotation change with DoS +4p depending on your current enrage status?

    It's a bit of an obvious situation, I feel retarded for not thinking of it earlier unless there is a reason not to do this?

    (enraged) -> BC+RB -> Ramp -> DoS -> RB

    (not enraged) ->BC+Ramp -> DoS -> RB - BT (as noted in the original guide)

  16. #396
    1) Naj'entus's Vertebrae - "If Whirlwind hits 3 or more enemies, it hits them 1 additional times.". This makes WW 473K already (I am stupid, i still don't know if Legendary belt should double the damage or just add one extra hit to main target)[/QUOTE]

    It adds an extra "spin", on top of the three Whirlwind does normally. That makes it a 33% damage increase.

    If you want to reason it out:
    • Your normal WW hits for 118,379 x = 355,137
    • That Whirlwind is actually comprised of three separate hits for ~39,459 each
    • Belt adds a fourth hit for ~39,459 on top
    • New total for Whirlwind with belt is 157,838 x 3 = 473,514

    Or you can simply multiply 118,379 x 1.33333 = 157,838

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoeth View Post
    What is the most efficient way to bind DoS? I'm not a macro guy and generally only use them for focus targeting, but I do find that occasionally during hectic situations I have trouble activating Avatar/BC simultaneously, then getting Rampage activated before hitting DoS. With most CDs a 0.5s delay between activations isn't a big deal but it is with BC. Is there a sequence macro that works for this, or is it just getting the sequence down to muscle memory?
    You can macro Avatar and Battle Cry together to make it easier (though be aware there are some situations where you may want to use BC and not Avatar), but there's no good way to macro Rampage and Draught in. If you want to minimize input time (time wasted due to the delay in manually pressing the keys after one another), my suggestion is to use a mouse button for one of them, so that you can press the mouse button and keyboard button simultaneously, and/or learn to use your cooldowns during the previous GCD sweep (Bloodthirst - BattleCry/Avatar during GCD sweep - Rampage).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kolopotho View Post
    This might seem obvious but should the cooldown rotation change with DoS +4p depending on your current enrage status?

    It's a bit of an obvious situation, I feel retarded for not thinking of it earlier unless there is a reason not to do this?

    (enraged) -> BC+RB -> Ramp -> DoS -> RB

    (not enraged) ->BC+Ramp -> DoS -> RB - BT (as noted in the original guide)
    You could, though it will cause DoS to fall out of Frothing Berserker; it activates when you hit 100 rage (use Battle Cry), not when you spend rage. The delay in using Rampage will also lower overall Frothing uptime, since you're delaying rage expenditure/generation by an extra GCD.

  17. #397
    The Patient kolopotho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    You could, though it will cause DoS to fall out of Frothing Berserker; it activates when you hit 100 rage (use Battle Cry), not when you spend rage. The delay in using Rampage will also lower overall Frothing uptime, since you're delaying rage expenditure/generation by an extra GCD.
    Makes sense, I'll have to inspect my logs when I get home and look at the timings (at work right now) but with Frothing Berserker lasting 6sec:

    BC+RB (1gcd) Ramp(1.5GCD) DoS (3sec) that leaves half a GCD of Frothing uptime doesn't it (assuming 1GCD = 1sec ignoring haste for now)? Which would just disappear with lag/input delay, then it would be a trade off of a non-Frothing BT and an RB because that last BT in the original rotation wouldn't benefit from Frothing anyway would it?

    I've always considered Fury's dps to be windows of opportunity with the major window being BC and the minor one being Frothing. Wouldn't the trade off of having a BC-enrage buffed RB be bigger than one GCD of wasted rage gen and one GCD of overall Frothing uptime (replicated each use of DoS). Sorry if I'm being slow here

  18. #398
    Quote Originally Posted by kolopotho View Post
    Makes sense, I'll have to inspect my logs when I get home and look at the timings (at work right now) but with Frothing Berserker lasting 6sec:

    BC+RB (1gcd) Ramp(1.5GCD) DoS (3sec) that leaves half a GCD of Frothing uptime doesn't it (assuming 1GCD = 1sec ignoring haste for now)? Which would just disappear with lag/input delay, then it would be a trade off of a non-Frothing BT and an RB because that last BT in the original rotation wouldn't benefit from Frothing anyway would it?

    I've always considered Fury's dps to be windows of opportunity with the major window being BC and the minor one being Frothing. Wouldn't the trade off of having a BC-enrage buffed RB be bigger than one GCD of wasted rage gen and one GCD of overall Frothing uptime (replicated each use of DoS). Sorry if I'm being slow here
    1 GCD is 1.5s before haste. Most players in H/M NH gear have ~25% haste, giving them a 1.2s GCD, and there's a ~0.1-0.2s delay both before and after Draught due to input time and the lack of item queuing. You can read more about that here.

    Putting RB before Draught simply means that the RB after Draught is going to fall out of buffs instead, so you're effectively choosing which one you want empowered; not to mention the loss of purposefully delaying your cds to ensure you're enraged before actually going into BC, or working against muscle memory by constantly changing your rotation. In my experience, there isn't any tangible gain.

  19. #399
    The Patient kolopotho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    1 GCD is 1.5s before haste.
    That's all it took! Cheers

  20. #400
    I have been trying to simm around and i always get that using raging blow over rampage as enraged and with 100 rage is better. Is it because i have the legendary helm and ring?

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