Utah dating homework tells girls: be 'feminine' triggers SJW mom into outrage

[WintersLegion]

Utah man, Utah.

There are still mormon sects out there that live isolated and marry off little girls. Several LEOs were found to have been covering up the practice just a few months ago. Check out their rather... interesting marriage laws.



Like I said, Utah.

That has nothing to do with it being Utah plenty of states have similar minimum age laws.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of..._United_States

[Danuru]

Eh. I've 'learned' weirder things in high school. (I'm looking at you Sex Ed). I really don't see how a dating worksheet is all that bizarre. Besides, students are very much capable of being assholes without the help of a worksheet. If you're offended by a teenager telling you to not waste money, you're going to have a tough life.

[Caerule]

Both of these are dripping with old school gender role specific stuff, really. Whether a list like this is of real help is anyone's guess. I'd be quite weirded our if my child brought this home in the first place. Either way, I don't think femininely is any more offensive than gentlemanly in this context. From the contest, what they really mean is "act civilized".

[BannedForViews]

A lot of you don't seem to understand this is a Mormon thing, not a Utah, or American thing.

[Selinde]

So being oneself for women is acting and being unfeminine? I'm confused. How are those things mutually exclusive? You can be yourself and be feminine at the same time.

Well some women are not feminine, if by feminine we mean "possessing characteristics usually attributed to the female gender". If we attribute make-up to the female gender and a woman dislikes it, then by that definition she is not being as feminine as a woman who likes wearing it. It can apply to every quality traditionally attributed to females like kindness, wearing dresses, high heels, being a caretaker, and so on and even works negatively when said woman possess qualities that are traditionally attributed to the male gender like competitiveness, foul language, is into sports a lot, etc. It's all about stereotypes. Every woman is charming in her own way to the right person without being asked to do specific things or act in a specific way.

Ofc you can be yourself and also be feminine at the same time if that's what one likes, I just think it's condescending and sexist to suggest a girl to "be feminine" to appeal to "boys" taste, not to mention hypocritical when followed by "but relax and be yourself".

[Spectral]

Every woman is charming in her own way to the right person without being asked to do specific things or act in a specific way.

This really isn't good advice.

[Deleted]

Clearly, the mom can use some guidelines to behave a little more ladylike herself.

[Selinde]

This really isn't good advice.

Because advice is not needed. If you pretend to be someone you're not to attract a partner how long is it going to last?

[Shahad]

The examples of being lady-like and feminine are "don't swear" and "don't use vulgar language". I think it's pretty safe to assume it's meant to be an equivalent to the "use good manners" that the guys have on their sheet. Maybe the wording could be improved, but I don't see anything worth being outraged over. Oh well.

[Deleted]

Because advice is not needed. If you pretend to be someone you're not to attract a partner how long is it going to last?

It isn't pretending, you leftie dingus. It's presenting yourself in a more palatable way for the opposite gender. Something that I certainly wish was more prominent in my schooling :^)

[rosebull]

Because advice is not needed. If you pretend to be someone you're not to attract a partner how long is it going to last?

How long do you expect a relationship to last where the girl/guy practices bad habits? I think the poster you replied to was just saying that listening to suggestions is not a bad thing.

[Selinde]

It isn't pretending, you leftie dingus. It's presenting yourself in a more palatable way for the opposite gender. Something that I certainly wish was more prominent in my schooling :^)

Firstly, you're assuming every person from the opposite gender is attracted to the exact same things, which is not true. Secondly, call it as you may, sooner or later you'll just revert back to your old self. Not to mention it's unfair to the person you're dating.

How long do you expect a relationship to last where the girl/guy practices bad habits? I think the poster you replied to was just saying that listening to suggestions is not a bad thing.

I can accept someone suggesting good manners as in "be respectful of other's boundaries" but that should go for both genders and in my opinion the lists should have been the same. What is a bad habit for you may not be for someone else. For example foul language. Someone may not be bothered by it, but I care. I would be wise to date someone that doesn't swear a lot. If I date someone and they swear a lot, I can ask them to not do it in my presence and they are not obliged to comply, if they do they are respecting my boundaries and also changing themselves for my own sake.

[Spectral]

Because advice is not needed. If you pretend to be someone you're not to attract a partner how long is it going to last?

People can change themselves over time. Telling someone to focus on self confidence (for example) isn't telling them to pretend to be someone, it's suggesting an actual improvement. To take an easy-to-see example, suggesting that a man should lift weights because it'll make him more attractive, more confident, and increase T levels isn't actually telling him to pretend, it's telling him to become a better person that's more desirable to partners.

While individual preferences do vary, it's also pretty obvious that there's advice that's pretty generalizable.

[Selinde]

People can change themselves over time. Telling someone to focus on self confidence (for example) isn't telling them to pretend to be someone, it's suggesting an actual improvement. To take an easy-to-see example, suggesting that a man should lift weights because it'll make him more attractive, more confident, and increase T levels isn't actually telling him to pretend, it's telling him to become a better person that's more desirable to partners.

While individual preferences do vary, it's also pretty obvious that there's advice that's pretty generalizable.

I completely agree that people can change over time. But any long-lasting change comes from how they see themselves and how they want to be like. Do they dislike that they are insecure? Then they will actively working on self-confidence. You can suggest that a man lift weights to attract partners, but there are bound to be women somewhere in the world who given the choice actually prefer slightly overweight or skinny guys, or even women that don't even look at body fitness when evaluating a partner but will instead focus on how he carries himself, his posture, his voice or his intelligence and lifting weights will do nothing to attract those women.

[Spectral]

I completely agree that people can change over time. But any long-lasting change comes from how they see themselves and how they want to be like. Do they dislike that they are insecure? Then they will actively working on self-confidence. You can suggest that a man lift weights to attract partners, but there are bound to be women somewhere in the world who given the choice actually prefer slightly overweight or skinny guys, or even women that don't even look at body fitness when evaluating a partner but will instead focus on how he carries himself, his posture, his voice or his intelligence and lifting weights will do nothing to attract those women.

I guess I'm not sure what your point is. My claim is that there's advice that is generalizable as good advice for the typical person. Telling someone (male or female) that being fit will improve their life is a good example. Telling someone that reading will improve their cognition and knowledge is another good example.

Likewise, there exists advice that is good in dating contexts - "learn to behave this way and you will generally be more appealing to partners". Most of this advice would not entail becoming something fake or bad, it entails engaging in self improvement. I understand that people may have different ideas about what constitutes good advice (obviously), but I would think we should be able to agree that advising young people how to conduct themselves is a good thing?

[TrumpIsPresident]

Given the way most people act today we might just need a class on "how not to be a slob asshole" being taught in grammar school.

But lulz @ the triggering from "be feminine" ...shit cant have girls doing that. /eyeroll

[Nihilanth]

Ofc you can be yourself and also be feminine at the same time if that's what one likes, I just think it's condescending and sexist to suggest a girl to "be feminine" to appeal to "boys" taste, not to mention hypocritical when followed by "but relax and be yourself".

There is nothing wrong nor sexist with appealing to boys taste if she is interested in dating. Isn't that the entire purpose of dating, to increase your attractiveness to the other sex in order to get better chances?

[Deleted]

i don't mind the fact that they are exchanging expectations of each other.

but i think it is wrong to make students go on a date as homework. what about the ones that don't get a date?
or the ones that don't want to date yet?

it is like saying: "have sex, to experience what we learned in E.D.".
talking and discussing is fine, but having a assignment on it is wrong (in my opinion).

especially since where i am from, when you didn't do your homework, you got a bad grade.

EDIT: Don't take the example with Sex to literal, that is not the focus of my post.

[Selinde]

I guess I'm not sure what your point is. My claim is that there's advice that is generalizable as good advice for the typical person. Telling someone (male or female) that being fit will improve their life is a good example. Telling someone that reading will improve their cognition and knowledge is another good example.

Likewise, there exists advice that is good in dating contexts - "learn to behave this way and you will generally be more appealing to partners". Most of this advice would not entail becoming something fake or bad, it entails engaging in self improvement. I understand that people may have different ideas about what constitutes good advice (obviously), but I would think we should be able to agree that advising young people how to conduct themselves is a good thing?

I'll try to explain myself. Generalized advice about improving yourself is good, because the goal is clear and the way to accomplish that goal is sureproof. Reading will improve your cognitive ability and knowledge, being fit will improve your health.

Dating advice in my opinion should not be generalized because there exists such a variety of preferences and taste, that what is true and works for one person won't be necessarily true for another one. I'm only talking about preferences and taste here, if we're talking about respectful behavior or effective communication skills then it's different because it's not about "attracting partners" but more like how to communicate efficently and interact with other human beings. Of course we should advice young people on how to be successful human beings, I just don't think that "be feminine and lady-like, have a sense of humor, keep your insecurity to yourself, don't comment about his driving" should be part of the indoctrination on how to attract partners

I don't know if you saw my first post in this thread, I said that in my opinion both lists should have read "Be respectful, don't expect anything, relax and be yourself" and possibly more, but I would give the same suggestions on how to be a good human to everyone.

There is nothing wrong nor sexist with appealing to boys taste if she is interested in dating. Isn't that the entire purpose of dating, to increase your attractiveness to the other sex in order to get better chances?

"Boys taste" is something unspecific, every boy will tell you something different. As long as she likes herself she can change what she is. No one should feel pressured and think "If I'm not like that I won't ever get a partner". I thought the purpose of dating is to assess if you are compatible or like the person you are with to eventually decide to whether have a committed relationship or not.

[Deleted]

I completely agree that people can change over time. But any long-lasting change comes from how they see themselves and how they want to be like. Do they dislike that they are insecure? Then they will actively working on self-confidence. You can suggest that a man lift weights to attract partners, but there are bound to be women somewhere in the world who given the choice actually prefer slightly overweight or skinny guys, or even women that don't even look at body fitness when evaluating a partner but will instead focus on how he carries himself, his posture, his voice or his intelligence and lifting weights will do nothing to attract those women.

How he carries himself and his posture would both improve in this situation by weight training. What are you on about?