The Terrifying Stakes Of Repealing Obamacare Without A Clear Replacement

[Tinykong]

are you suggesting most people don't have this standard benefit/policy? where is your proof? Where is your citation?

You posted it when you said employers can just opt out of it to save money. It stands to reason most of them will.

[NED funded]

I dont know if these has been posted,but I think its fucking shitty that the gop essentially passed a congressional rule that forbids the Congressional Budget Office from reporting of the costs of repealing obamacare.

[Macaquerie]

I dont know if these has been posted,but I think its fucking shitty that the gop essentially passed a congressional rule that forbids the Congressional Budget Office from reporting of the costs of repealing obamacare.

That's the most frustrating thing about the GOP. It's one thing to just disagree with somebody's ideas, but if they really believe strongly that what they're doing is right and are willing to fight hard to get their way, that's at least something you can respect. The Republicans in Congress KNOW that they're nothing more than partisan hacks beholden to special interests, and that what they're doing will hurt their own voters, but as long as they can find some way to blame it all on Democrats the donor money will keep flowing in and they can fall back on racism and nativism to win over voters that, by all sane logic, should have abandoned them a long time ago. Repealing Obamacare WILL be a disaster and the GOP knows this, that's why they're trying to delay it until at least the next round of midterms, and I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't pushed past the 2020 as well by the end.

[Zan15]

You posted it when you said employers can just opt out of it to save money. It stands to reason most of them will.

Already explained they can do a lot of things burr they don't. One policy I used to administer actually paid for Jacuzzi to be put in an execs house.

They can pay for a Jacuzzi....but good luck in this happening for 99.9% Of the people in the world.

But...
No no you are right never mind I won't bother you with anymore silly nonsense. You are right.

As for everyone else. If you are in an situation where you had no control over your care like the ER....your benfits most likely for 99.5% Of you out there should be paid at the in network level even if they are not in your insurance companies network.

If it wasn't call your ins company to fix it. You will still owe money but in network benefits are better then out you will owe less.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Republicans had a full plan on the table while obamacare was being passed, put together by a medical doctor congressman, the democrats just wouldn't let it be voted on. Republicans have a plan now, denying it won't make it any less so. They're easy enough to find if you want to look. And obamacare rates went up faster than in previous years. Some people though found their rates go up much higher than others because obamacare outlawed several plans, meaning that people who were on discount plans found the next best plan sometimes 4x more expensive, and since they made to much for subsedies, had to drop their healthcare as a result.

You may say that the republicans haven't offered one that isn't worse, but that's a matter of perspective, Obamacare has a very bad reputation out there, more people say they'd prefer healthcare the way it was before Obamacare, than the current state of obamacare.

1. You can look up any bill being drafted in the house or senate online on the government's website. Neither during the drafting of the ACA, nor now, did I or can I find this supposed plan you think Republicans had/have that needs to be voted on. Honestly, this sounds like some grade A wishful thinking. Trust me though, it would be nice to see if they have a plan ready to go since they seem serious about repealing. So if you have a link to these plans, please provide. You said it was easy, and I've exhausted all of my sources. Thanks. <3

2. The premium rate increases in the 2-3 years prior to the ACA passing were about 5-7%, for various reasons. The premium increases once the ACA passed were anywhere from 7-12%. So... "technically" you're right that premium increases were higher in the first few years of the ACA than the couple of years before it. In the two decades before those 3 years before the ACA, the premiums were going up anywhere from 10-15% per year. So in technicality, your statement was correct. In reality, looking beyond just a couple of years before the ACA, the premium hikes now that the ACA has been out are actually LOWER than they were before the ACA.

3. Discount plans are trash, they are garbage. They are frankly put, scams, and thus is why they no longer exist. Yes, you got to pay double digit premiums for insurance... that basically paid for you to get a dental cleaning and a yearly checkup. It also paid for bandaids, a small number of prescriptions, and a lollipop at the corner drug store. Anything beyond that, the insurance company fought tooth and nail to not pay out, even if it was in the contract. Discount plans were infamous for dropping people randomly (especially when they needed them most) and just simply never paying out when called upon.

4. Obamacare has a very bad reputation, but the ACA is awesome. It's so awesome that a whole lot of Republicans don't even know that Obamacare and the ACA are the exact same thing. It's just that Obamacare was what conservative media attacked relentlessly with fake propaganda. Yeah, Obamacare has a bad reputation in the same vein that Hillary does. A lot of what was said about both was false, but when certain people hear something on the news, they believe it anyway.




Bonus: Premium hikes each year are lower under the ACA, but more than half of people claim their premiums went up dramatically, some even claim several thousand if not tens of thousands of percent. A lot of these people also didn't do much in the way of research. Employers have the option of not only getting bulk plans for employees, which makes each individual plan slightly cheaper than if an individual was buying said plan, but many employers would also subsidize their employee's health insurance, sometimes by offering to pay half, some even pay for nearly all of their employee's health insurance. Many big companies, whose owners and CEOs did not like Obamacare, and many frankly hated it, decided to do what they could to turn public opinion against the ACA as much as they could.

Many of these employers were paying 80%+ of their employees insurance. Say your employer was paying 90% of your insurance. Year 1 it was $300, but you only paid $30 because your employer paid 90% of the cost. Year 2 the ACA passes, but its not in effect yet. Your employer still pays 90% of your premiums. Your premiums go up by 15%. The base cost is now $345 per month, but you only pay 34.50 of that, so you saw a hike of $4.50. Year 3, your insurance premium goes up by 5%, but your employer is like "man I really hate Obamacare" and decides to dick you over and now only pays 20% of your insurance. Your premium is now $363, but you're now paying $290.

So the educated people went in and figured out what happened. They went in and figured out what their employer had done, realizing that they had simply taken a pay cut because their employer was a dickhead with a political agenda. That insurance subsidy was not explicitly a part of their salary, so it's something an employer can give and take away freely. So the educated people realized "My employer is now paying me about $250 per month less than he used to". Uneducated people with a political agenda went "OH MY GOD OBAMACARE IS SO AWFUL IT MADE MY PREMIUM GO FROM $34.50 TO $290!!!!!! ALL OF YOU LIBERALS SAYING OBAMACARE DIDN'T MAKE THE PRICE SKY ROCKET ARE STOOOOOOPID!"

[Tinykong]

If you are in an situation where you had no control over your care like the ER....your benfits most likely for 99.5% Of you out there should be paid at the in network level even if they are not in your insurance companies network.

If it wasn't call your ins company to fix it. You will still owe money but in network benefits are better then out you will owe less.

Still making shit up, hilarious.

[Tijuana]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/katiesol.../#29c6b26aa5d0
@breadisfunny what do you think?




People are gonna lose their lives over this. It really boggles the mind that these politicians were voted in.

Only the most partisan person ever, could argue that the Republican plan is just to repeal. Anyone who claims to have never heard the endless usage of the term "Repeal and Replace" from Trump, was simply not watching this election. This story is fake news.

[Tennis]

Only a troll or the most partisan person ever, could argue that the Republican plan is just to repeal. Anyone who claims to have never heard the endless usage of the term "Repeal and Replace" from Trump, was simply not watching this election. This story is fake news.

Only a troll eh?
Except that what exactly is the plan the day that it is repealed? Aren't your boys in DC trying to get it done asap? Then what?

[Tijuana]

Except that what exactly is the plan the day that it is repealed? Aren't your boys in DC trying to get it done asap? Then what?

There are a number of news outlets you could seek out to review the various plans being offered. Since we are not ruled by a foreign queen, like Canadia is, we will have to debate the various proposals, and vote on one. However, the notion that the Unaffordable Care Act will be simply repealed, is ridiculous and anyone putting forth that notion is being disingenuous and seeking a comically angry reaction.

[drakensoul]

There are a number of news outlets you could seek out to review the various plans being offered. Since we are not ruled by a foreign queen, like Canadia is, we will have to debate the various proposals, and vote on one. However, the notion that the Unaffordable Care Act will be simply repealed, is ridiculous and anyone putting forth that notion is being disingenuous and seeking a comically angry reaction.

I thought it was pretty common knowledge that the question isn't whether or not it will be replaced, but rather when and with what.

Obviously there have also been various 'outlets' describing some members of the GOP who wish to 'repeal and delay,' and replace later. To go on this aggressively-worded rant about how no one could possibly think there'd be a chance of repeal without immediate, simultaneous replacement is itself disingenuous and, just for shits, also comically angry.

Pick your favorite Trump sound bite about it and it probably includes the "it will be replaced, maybe right away, maybe in the same week, probably in the same hour, maybe at the same time" bit.

Obviously no one agrees 100% on how to go about doing it or we'd have more concrete plans to show for it over the last six years. So yes, I'm sure you can google and find a list of 15 people in the GOP who would be fine with repealing and delaying and worrying about it later.

We will all find out together what reality is. Maybe it will be repealed and replaced simultaneously, maybe it won't. Flexing your forum muscle and growling about how much more you know than the rest of us that have watched the exact same coverage.... well I hope it's at least fun for you.

Unless you're just growling about what Trump 'really means.'

[Tijuana]

Obviously there have also been various 'outlets' describing some members of the GOP who wish to 'repeal and delay,' and replace later. To go on this aggressively-worded rant about how no one could possibly think there'd be a chance of repeal without immediately, simultaneous replacement is itself disingenuous and, just for shits, also comically angry.

Pick your favorite Trump sound bite about it and it probably includes the "it will be replaced, maybe right away, maybe in the same week, probably in the same hour, maybe at the same time" bit.

We will all find out together what reality is. Flexing your forum muscle and growling about how much more you know than the rest of us that have watched the exact same coverage.... well I hope it's at least fun for you.

There was nothing even remotely angry, or even remotely aggressive, in what I posted. I have no idea why you would think that.

To the "substance" of your point, you are being just as disingenuous as the other poster. Even if what you say were true, that still won't leave anyone in a healthcare gap. You DO KNOW that Obamacare was passed to take effect on a future date, right? Right? Why is it then, that you seem to be unaware of the concept of laws that take effect at a later date? Even if Obamacare is repealed and replaced later, that doesn't mean they will just leave people to die in the streets. The fact that anyone could be stupid enough to think that, shows how we arrived at this hyper partisan atmosphere.

I mean, no wonder you don't agree with the other side, if you think they they are something more evil than a hybrid clone of Hitler and Darth Vader.

[drakensoul]

There was nothing even remotely angry, or even remotely aggressive, in what I posted. I have no idea why you would think that.

To the "substance" of your point, you are being just as disingenuous as the other poster. Even if what you say were true, that still won't leave anyone in a healthcare gap. You DO KNOW that Obamacare was passed to take effect on a future date, right? Right? Why is it then, that you seem to be unaware of the concept of laws that take effect at a later date? Even if Obamacare is repealed and replaced later, that doesn't mean they will just leave people to die in the streets. The fact that anyone could be stupid enough to think that, shows how we arrived at this hyper partisan atmosphere.

I mean, no wonder you don't agree with the other side, if you think they they are something more evil than a hybrid clone of Hitler and Darth Vader.

Angry words. Though I can't find having said anyone was going to die in the streets, pretty dramatic no?

First it's impossibly stupid and disingenuous to think that it wouldn't be replaced right away, now it's a given that it might not be replaced right away but impossibly stupid to think that means people might die in the streets... We're all over the place here.

We'll all find out together what happens. For now, we're all watching the exact same coverage. We've all seen the same GOP people say the same things about what they think they'd like to do with it, and we all have the same level of knowledge which is, at best, a guess based on experience. If people on the forum repeating what they've heard and read equates, in your mind, with them being impossibly stupid, well then...

"Disingenuous comically angry reaction" "being just as disingenuous" "Die in the streets" "You DO KNOW, right? Right?" "anyone could be stupid enough"

Keep growling? I don't know... Like I said, I hope it's like way super fun for you.

[Tijuana]

Angry words. Though I can't find having said anyone was going to die in the streets, pretty dramatic no?

We'll all find out together what happens. For now, we're all watching the exact same coverage. We've all seen the same GOP people say the same things about what they think they'd like to do with it, and we all have the same level of knowledge which is, at best, a guess based on experience. If people on the forum repeating what they've heard and read equates, in your mind, with them being impossibly stupid, well then...

"Disingenuous comically angry reaction" "being just as disingenuous" "Die in the streets" "You DO KNOW, right? Right?" "anyone could be stupid enough"

Keep growling? I don't know... Like I said, I hope it's like way super fun for you.

I'm sorry if my strong words melted the edges of you, snowflake. I'm not angry at all. In fact, I find this entire notion to be pretty hilarious.

Do you legitimately think that Republicans are so stupid and heartless, that they would just leave people with no insurance? Do you actually think that? Do you not understand how voting and popularity with said voters functions? Do you even government, bro?

[drakensoul]

I'm sorry if my strong words melted the edges of you, snowflake. I'm not angry at all. In fact, I find this entire notion to be pretty hilarious.

Do you legitimately think that Republicans are so stupid and heartless, that they would just leave people with no insurance? Do you actually think that? Do you not understand how voting and popularity with said voters functions? Do you even government, bro?

Couldn't find the point if you were drowning in it. I'm sure someone else reading will get it.

Later Darth.

[Tijuana]

Couldn't find the point if you were drowning in it. I'm sure someone else reading will get it.

Later Darth.

You are correct that I don't see your point, other than so claim I'm angry. "No you" isn't exactly a strong argument.

[Draco-Onis]

Do you legitimately think that Republicans are so stupid and heartless, that they would just leave people with no insurance? Do you actually think that? Do you not understand how voting and popularity with said voters functions? Do you even government, bro?

But they did do just that for years in fact, until Obama enacted their plan from back when Clinton tried to push for single payer. Most people still get their healthcare from their employers so while it is bad optics it would not affect most voters. If the numbers are correct only 6 million republicans are on Obamacare (could be wrong) so they really don't have much to worry about the news cycle would go and forget about those people like they have for a long time.

[Kujako]

Do you legitimately think that Republicans are so stupid and heartless, that they would just leave people with no insurance?

The idea that poor people should just die when they get sick was met with applause at the Republican primary debates 12 years ago. So... yes?

[Tijuana]

The idea that poor people should just die when they get sick was met with applause at the Republican primary debates 12 years ago. So... yes?

Ok, then we will put you in this column over here then. Thanks for your response.

[Allybeboba]

People act as if we had nothing before ACA.

For most working people ACA has been a disaster. Insurance is more expensive, copays and deductibles are higher. I have to spend $12,000 in medical just to actually break even now. I have considered DROPPING my insurance coverage and just paying the fine because it is so expensive. Many people have had to change insurance companies and doctors.

[Kujako]

People act as if we had nothing before ACA.

Before the ACA, I know of several people who flat out could not get insurance due to preexisting conditions.