Mantle of the Master Assassin Opener with Sin

[Deleted]

I'm wondering whether the opener changes when having the shoulders. My usual opener is garrote > envenom > mutilate > rupture > mutilate > vendetta > mutilate(till 5cp) > vanish > rupture

[Wenoxar]

With Agonizing Poison:

Garrote -> Envenom -> Multiate -> Rupture -> Multiate -> Fan of Knives -> Vanish -> Rupture -> Vendetta -> Kingsbane -> Envenom -> Multiate -> Envenom -> Multiate -> Envenom -> ..

It is a really well calculated opener and works so nicely. You do not waste energy, vendetta uptime nor MAI uptime.

Alternative version:

Garrote -> Envenom -> Multiate -> Rupture -> Multiate -> Fan of Knives -> Vanish -> Rupture -> Vendetta -> Multiate -> Envenom -> Kingsbane -> Envenom -> Multiate -> Envenom -> ..

Providing you do not use waist, general idea to follow is to delay the first set of Vanish/Vendetta to maximize uptime of shoulder's buff.

#EDIT: By the way, guys. At first you look at these shoulders and you think "fuck, crap legendary" but after a while you realize that it is indeed a powerful legendary.

Gets even better with Exsanguinate.

[Deleted]

That opener seems more efficient that way indeed. I have both the wrists and boots although they're 910 and I just looted the shoulders and they sim higher than the wrists. Although the wrists will be far more useful in fights with adds but I'm thinking of swapping them depending on boss.

[Arker42]

[b]Gets even better with Exsanguinate.

Awesome suggestion, Wenoxar. Can't wait to test it out. How would Exsanguinate fit into the openers above?

[Wenoxar]

@justarogue369

shoulder=,id=144236,bonus_id=1811/3458

It's an ID/bonus ID of i910 shoulders. If you wish check out if it would still be better for you than boots if it was 910 rather than 940. However, I bet you realize boots are quite fight-length dependant (are you able to cast extra vendetta(s)? how well are you able to line Vendettas with other minor-CDs like Kingsbane / Exsa?) so it all comes down to fight length, quite a bit.

Anyway, made some digging and seems like newest version of SimulationCraft still hasn't been updated for improved shoulders opener. What SimulationCraft currently does is:

Garrote -> Rupture -> Multiate -> Multiate -> Vendetta -> Vanish -> Rupture -> Multiate -> Envenom -> Kingsbane -> Multiate -> Envenom

which is wrong.

HERE wasting a lot of energy and 3 combo points and HERE wasting a lot of energy once again (using Vendetta at ~50% energy which is not... optimal). On top of that using Vanish ~4 seconds into the fight rather than 6 seconds leading to 2 seconds waste of MAI buff. In sequence table Kingsbane generated only 2 combo points (should generate 3) so most definitely SimulationCraft isn't updated yet.

Btw, it is debatable whether to start pull with Garrote -> Rupture (for earlier energy generation) or Garrote -> Envenom (for shorter AP stacking ramp-up time). Second one might be better one, however Poison Bomb has like 100%ish chance to proc with first cast of Envenom, so also might be better to have Vendetta already activated for an extra damage.

[Deleted]

@justarogue369



It's an ID/bonus ID of i910 shoulders. If you wish check out if it would still be better for you than boots if it was 910 rather than 940. However, I bet you realize boots are quite fight-length dependant (are you able to cast extra vendetta(s)? how well are you able to line Vendettas with other minor-CDs like Kingsbane / Exsa?) so it all comes down to fight length, quite a bit.

Anyway, made some digging and seems like newest version of SimulationCraft still hasn't been updated for improved shoulders opener. What SimulationCraft currently does is:

Garrote -> Rupture -> Multiate -> Multiate -> Vendetta -> Vanish -> Rupture -> Multiate -> Envenom -> Kingsbane -> Multiate -> Envenom

which is wrong.

HERE wasting a lot of energy and 3 combo points and HERE wasting a lot of energy once again (using Vendetta at ~50% energy which is not... optimal). On top of that using Vanish ~4 seconds into the fight rather than 6 seconds leading to 2 seconds waste of MAI buff. In sequence table Kingsbane generated only 2 combo points (should generate 3) so most definitely SimulationCraft isn't updated yet.

Btw, it is debatable whether to start pull with Garrote -> Rupture (for earlier energy generation) or Garrote -> Envenom (for shorter AP stacking ramp-up time). Second one might be better one, however Poison Bomb has like 100%ish chance to proc with first cast of Envenom, so also might be better to have Vendetta already activated for an extra damage.

Yeah, the 910 shoulders still sim higher than the wrists and simcraft is using the shoulders wrong as you said. I don't know though whether their better on fights that involve adds. I'm thinking what bosses should I swap wrists for shoulders.

On Skorpyron I think Wrists/Boots are the clear winner even though I have the cloak also. On Chronomatic Anomaly/Krosus/Trilliax and maybe Tichondrius I was thinking boots + shoulders. Not sure about the rest since I haven't cleared them.

EDIT: The shoulders are godlike in M+

[scarfdeath]

i am the only one here that think you should use more envenenon with this shoulder ?

i mean the last time i saw the average dmg from 1 rupture cast was 2.5M thats +- 210K per proc every 2 seconds.

with the shoulder you can only get 2 or 3 procs. and that's is a minimal dmg increase from rupture.

the other way around last time i used a envenon it Crit for 1.5m dmg....

so im pretty sure you would do WAY more damage with this open.

Garrote -> Rupture -> Multiate -> Envenom -> Multiate -> Envenom

[Wenoxar]

i am the only one here that think you should use more envenenon with this shoulder ?

i mean the last time i saw the average dmg from 1 rupture cast was 2.5M thats +- 210K per proc every 2 seconds.

with the shoulder you can only get 2 or 3 procs. and that's is a minimal dmg increase from rupture.

the other way around last time i used a envenon it Crit for 1.5m dmg....

so im pretty sure you would do WAY more damage with this open.

Garrote -> Rupture -> Multiate -> Envenom -> Multiate -> Envenom

I agree, but if you do 2x multiate -> envenom, then you end up with no energy, no combo points and shoulders' buff expires. Then you can do either of these 2:
a) use Vendetta and do 2x Multiate, then Vanish Rupture and you end up with no energy for MAI proc
b) use Vendetta and do 2x Multiate, delay Vanish Rupture - wasting Vendetta uptime
c) wait few seconds to pool energy to use Vanish -> Rupture and then Vendetta, which is fine, but you'd be wasting few good seconds pooling that energy - doing nothing, and delaying Vendetta/Vanish even more

It's still a good opener, but I suppose there just are better ones

[Elyzibeth]

Here's what I've been doing the last few days and it seems to work very well. I had to completely change my opener from what it was, but one benefit I have is that subterfuge sims higher dps than nightstalker for me. so this opener is awesome for me.

garrote>mutilate>rupture>mutilate>envenom>vendetta>vanish>kingsbane>envenom>mutilate to envenom spam
[---6 seconds of crit------------------------------------------] [----6 seconds of crit starts again-------->

With this opener I regularly hit 1.5 million on my opener, if I proc a BOT (psn bomb) I push up to 2million plus.
Below are my logs from last night using this opener. Most my openers are 1.5 millionish, if you look at wipe attempt 2&3 on spellblade you can see I had BOT procs and pushed into 2million plus.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

[Won7on]

With Agonizing Poison:

Garrote -> Envenom -> Multiate -> Rupture -> Multiate -> Fan of Knives -> Vanish -> Rupture -> Vendetta -> Kingsbane -> Envenom -> Multiate -> Envenom -> Multiate -> Envenom -> ..

Hmmmmmm, that's really interesting. I see many people suggest the early Envenom for AP, but I'm not sure I buy the benefit of it. AP stacks up plenty quick anyway since the buff to 30%. I usually do Garrote > Mut > Rupture > Mut > Mut > Vanish+Rupture > Vendetta+Kingsbane > Envenom > Mut > Envenom > Mut.

You can only get 5 abilities in after Vanish regardless, so 3 Envenoms are impossible.

I have to say, I never thought of using Fok in the opener. I assume you did it for the reduced energy cost? I'm a gnome so I can do the 2nd Mut before Vendetta, but that's really smart.

[Richie311]

That fok is to get the 5th cp for the vanish rupture

[Rucati]

FoK in the opener also works well if you happen to be stuck with the cloak as your second legendary. When it's stacked up to 1000% which it will be in the opener it's one of our hardest hitting skills. Unfortunately, if you have the cloak you're probably too busy crying to actually raid... If you don't mind me I'll be in the corner now...

[Deleted]

I have no clue why because it looks pretty ineffective on paper but i receive the best result in 10/10 tries with

Garrote mutilate rupture kingsbane mutilate vendetta vanish rupture mutilate envenom mutilate envenom mutilate. Up to 2.6mil opener for thsi time frame without 2p/4p.

[Jeclipse]

FoK in the opener also works well if you happen to be stuck with the cloak as your second legendary. When it's stacked up to 1000% which it will be in the opener it's one of our hardest hitting skills. Unfortunately, if you have the cloak you're probably too busy crying to actually raid... If you don't mind me I'll be in the corner now...

What do you mean -stuck- with the cloak. After legendaries were normalized the cloak is now one of the strongest legendaries you can have, since it's the strongest choice for any fight with aoe

[Deleted]

Here's what I've been doing the last few days and it seems to work very well. I had to completely change my opener from what it was, but one benefit I have is that subterfuge sims higher dps than nightstalker for me. so this opener is awesome for me.

garrote>mutilate>rupture>mutilate>envenom>vendetta>vanish>kingsbane>envenom>mutilate to envenom spam
[---6 seconds of crit------------------------------------------] [----6 seconds of crit starts again-------->

With this opener I regularly hit 1.5 million on my opener, if I proc a BOT (psn bomb) I push up to 2million plus.
Below are my logs from last night using this opener. Most my openers are 1.5 millionish, if you look at wipe attempt 2&3 on spellblade you can see I had BOT procs and pushed into 2million plus.

After some tests i have ended up with this same order so i am quite happy to see other players going for it (i also think doing early envenom is bad cause poison bomb procs out of vendetta), but i feel like i am missing something so i wanna ask a question if possible:
- why does mantle of master assassin benefits from subterfuge? i don t see any interaction
- can you please tell what macro are you using? like envenom - macro with vendetta and vanish - kingsbane?

[Leetbeartank]

What do you mean -stuck- with the cloak. After legendaries were normalized the cloak is now one of the strongest legendaries you can have, since it's the strongest choice for any fight with aoe

It's useful on a couple of fights... But you'd be better off having the boots or bracers most of the time. If you have the cloak and want to AOE, you might as well go sub.

[Deleted]

is really worth it 1 fok for filling that 1cp? seems wrong

[SSJones]

I got the mantle this week, and I've been having the most luck with this opener (I have the cloak, so some might want to skip the FoK, and spend the extra energy on another Mutilate there?)

Garrote -> Kingsbane -> Rupture -> FoK -> Mutilate -> Envenom -> Vendetta -> Mutilate -> Mutilate -> Vanish/Rupture -> Mutilate -> Envenom -> Rotation


This gives me a couple of good bonuses.
#1 - It doesn't use Vanish until the Mantle buff has fallen off so you get the full 12 seconds from opening stealth and vanish.
#2 - The second vanish results in having the buff during the second half of Kingsbane, when it is more powerful (all but the last tick or two).
#3 - The last ten seconds of kingsbane will be under the envenom buff, helping poison application without inefficient low cp times from envenom.
#4 - Your first envenom is a 5 point surge, so if poison bomb procs on it it gets max bonus

The basic point is to maximize how long your mantle buff lasts, and stagger it as much towards the end of kingsbane as possible without holding vanish so long that you lose potential dps.

[VicenteRangel]

I've been having fun just using a kingsbane/vendetta macro right off the bat out of stealth and using thistle teas and i've been doing crazy damage.

[Deleted]

the best results I receive with

garrote -> mut -> rupture -> kingsbane -> mut -> vanish rupture -> vendetta -> mut -> env [-> mut -> env | or guldan trinket] (dont delay, spam it)

I dont have the trinket, without the trinket I was able to break the 2.75mil dps mark at the pull. Playing with bracers/shoulders/4p

To use FoK, especially without the cloak and with 2p, is a pure waste of energy (pretty low dpe). Mutilate is a very good filler to drop energy if there isnt an alternative (dpe is much much higher than FoK, esp with 2p). I think its necessary to have at leat 15 stacks of the cloak to be on par with mutilate dpe wise (dpe = damage per energy).