Mantle of the Master Assassin Opener with Sin

[Terminattor]

I think you want to garrote early to start the energy regen from Venomous Wounds

[Greylan]

Assuming being talented into Nightstalker, surely Garrote from stealth is a waste as it does no initial damage, and the bleed does not snap shot the 50% additional damage from Nightstalker (to my knowledge.)

I'm pretty sure it does - and would also explain why many guides says to let the initial garrote tic for its entire duration before refreshing.

[Swol]

I've done a lot of investigation lately for Assassination openers. The best that I have found are the following:

Nightstalker
Garrote, Poisoned Knife, Mutilate, Rupture, Mut to 5 CP, Vanish, Rupture, Vendetta, KB, Mutilate, Envenom

Subterfuge
Garrote, Mutilate, Garrote, Mutilate, Rupture, Vendetta, KB, Mutilate, Envenom

Those are the openers that simulate to the highest DPS, on average.

When looking at the second one, the first thing people will say (and the first thing I said as well) is that the second mutilate is a total waste. My only answer to that is... sometimes what feels intuitive doesn't turn out to be best. The extra mutilate increases damage in a lot of cases. With Mantle you can skip it(end up doing same damage overall), but with the 2 piece and some other gear combinations, it is worth it.

Keep in mind that openers have lasting impacts on the rest of your parse - these openers are meant to give you the highest DPS overall on the entire fight. The opener itself might do slightly less damage than some others.

[Spryte]

Nightstalker
Garrote, Poisoned Knife, Mutilate, Rupture, Mut to 5 CP, Vanish, Rupture, Vendetta, KB, Mutilate, Envenom

Surely an Envenom here instead of Poisoned Knife would be better?
(with shoulders)

[Swol]

Surely an Envenom here instead of Poisoned Knife would be better?
(with shoulders)

I tested that idea as well - and the results always end up being significantly worse. If someone can put together a simulation where using envenom that early in the opener does more damage, I'd definitely like to see that.

[Spryte]

I tested that idea as well - and the results always end up being significantly worse. If someone can put together a simulation where using envenom that early in the opener does more damage, I'd definitely like to see that.

It just seems so weird.

[Won7on]

I just don't see a scenario where poisoned knife is worth it over Mutilate in the opener. Mut already has a 51% chance to apply AP, and it also hits much, much harder than Poisoned Knife (esp with 2p) and generates more CP per point of energy spent.

Sometimes what sims the highest isn't necessarily the best in real life. Any experienced theorycrafter will tell you sim results still need to be examined through the lens of common sense. And this doesn't really make sense.

[MostlyEvilKiwi]

I've done a lot of investigation lately for Assassination openers. The best that I have found are the following:

Nightstalker
Garrote, Poisoned Knife, Mutilate, Rupture, Mut to 5 CP, Vanish, Rupture, Vendetta, KB, Mutilate, Envenom

Nice, first time I've ever seen anyone else using PK in the opener. Early in EN I got sick to death of every 1 out of 10 pulls proccing no AP until well after the vanish rupture, so started using PK after the opening garrote to guarantee early energy regen, and it always feels like the best opener for me vs anyone elses I've tried out. I don't do that first mut though, just garrote > PK > rupture then the rest is the same. I tried at one point messing with SimC's APL to do PK after the garotte too, and it seemed to give higher dps by about 1k, glad to see AMR's model agrees and that I'm not imagining things

[OzTeN]

I just don't see a scenario where poisoned knife is worth it over Mutilate in the opener. Mut already has a 51% chance to apply AP, and it also hits much, much harder than Poisoned Knife (esp with 2p) and generates more CP per point of energy spent.

Sometimes what sims the highest isn't necessarily the best in real life. Any experienced theorycrafter will tell you sim results still need to be examined through the lens of common sense. And this doesn't really make sense.

I think PK is used when you dont have time to fit another mut into the 100% crit window to get to 0 energy before popping vendetta. Atleast its what it looks like after looking at the top parse. He uses PK to get to 5cp before using rupture, and after trying it if I swapped that PK to mut I wouldnt have enough energy for the last mutilate in the crit window.