Assa Rogue AoE in general.

[Deleted]

So... I can get 1.5 million AoE damage on packs if I get lucky on PB procs, rupture all the mobs, use garrote well, change sets AND switch poisons.

Meanwhile an arcane mage spams one button and does 2 million dps.

Am I the only one who thinks we're getting shafted in m+?

And don't tell me to go outlaw, I'm not even close to the numbers I'm pulling as assa.

[Strah]

Yeah, our aoe is awful, that is a fact.

[Deleted]

So it was pretty hard to find +12, +15 is going to be fun now.

[Kalador]

Sin is not really about bursty AoE and arcane is a bit op right now... I would not be surprised if they nerf explosion prty soon.

Sin is all about sustained cleave... High health 3-4T packs is were we shine. I don't mind not having the arcane burst, sin is in such a good place I couldn't give fuck about big dmg on low health big packs.

And sorry to say that but if you want ultra bursty AoE in rogue sub has very high burst with shadow dance + Shuriken Strom. Outlaw can do very well with Canon ball barrage in those situations to. Also saying outlaw is not on par with sin in M+ right now and that you cannot match sin number probably means you can't play outlaw correctly. Outlaw is on such a good spot right now in m+ with the buff to alacrity and the general buff to the spec.

[Deleted]

I don't care about burst.

I care about the fact we're getting ignored in high content LFG because we're not seen as an AoE class. Even outlaw is horsecrap at that while it's supposed to be our AoE spec.

[Essem]

Sin is not really about bursty AoE and arcane is a bit op right now... I would not be surprised if they nerf explosion prty soon.

Sin is all about sustained cleave... High health 3-4T packs is were we shine. I don't mind not having the arcane burst, sin is in such a good place I couldn't give fuck about big dmg on low health big packs.

Youre gonna need a +15 with fortified to be able to keep up on 3-4 targets, and even then multi rupture doesnt do enough damage to keep up with others who does burst aoe and sustained aoe. Sin AOE is about poison bomb, you will do just ok (not even top tier) if you get a godly procc and you will do shit if you dont.

[Kalador]

Youre gonna need a +15 with fortified to be able to keep up on 3-4 targets, and even then multi rupture doesnt do enough damage to keep up with others who does burst aoe and sustained aoe. Sin AOE is about poison bomb, you will do just ok (not even top tier) if you get a godly procc and you will do shit if you dont.

Yeah I think you can do good with sin but I personally play outlaw for m+ I think it's an all-around better spec in m+ environment with MFD reset and instant no buildup cleave. Sin is more of a raid spec imo but with some good exsang usage and multi rupture you can do prty decent on trash... Sin is very good for tyrannical and that's not to be underestimated in higher level keys.

I don't care about burst.

I care about the fact we're getting ignored in high content LFG because we're not seen as an AoE class. Even outlaw is horsecrap at that while it's supposed to be our AoE spec.

Outlaw is horsecrap hahahahahah. I run all my high Key's with a dh and a fire mage and i'm doing just fine as outlaw. I also have absolutely no problem finding spot in carry group. The community might not see us as a top tier AoE spec but they are mostly wrong. Outlaw is clearly top tier in m+ with insane sustained cleave, Super good burst AoE and ST CDs, top tier survivability and super strong utility CDs like tricks and the come back of shroud ... Just shroud can save 10min of potion usage in some M+ if you think about it that makes it probably the best M+ CD out of all the classes.

[Deleted]

Just shroud can save 10min of potion usage in some M+ if you think about it that makes it probably the best M+ CD out of all the classes.

And dont forget that we can use shroud where you not usually would have used invis, for example in vault, most people just kill 1 set of mobs after second boss, and then spend 40-45 sec running around between the 4th boss and the elevator, just use shroud there for example. skipping the last pack in dht,and so on

[Kalador]

And dont forget that we can use shroud where you not usually would have used invis, for example in vault, most people just kill 1 set of mobs after second boss, and then spend 40-45 sec running around between the 4th boss and the elevator, just use shroud there for example. skipping the last pack in dht,and so on

Yup I think because rogue lost it for the start of legion most+ strat were developed without it in mind and people forget to use it or don't think about that CD now even when a rogue is in the group... But it is such a powerfull cd Italie insane... A single use can save 3-4 min of trash

[Deleted]

rogues are very awesome at very high keystones. a lot of my 16/17 we used double rogue for it (they are also listed within the top20 rogue m+ ranking). its not only dps but also pretty insane survivability what makes rogue strong for m+. Furthermore our performance is not that much influenced by keystone affixes than the most other classes. I dont have any probs to join pugs up to +18 keys as assassination (I am currently 6th place at wow progress m+ ranking for rogues).

Our base AoE dps is not really high. You need to be a little bit lucky with the correct legendaries, but you can also improve your dps by using your mind. I dont know why so few people dont use aoe trinkets in m+ (its an pretty insane dps increase for all classes, even if they are already strong in aoe). Most of the ranged/caster aoe trinkets (like aran ruby) are also working for melee. Terrorbound nexus is also an pretty strong dps trinket for m+.

The only place where rogues are lower tier is m+ farm content. If you can pull the whole deck of MoS we are ofc one of the weaker classes to bring. But this is crying at very high niveau, any class combination is able to clear MoS within 8min (+7-9).

[Tier539]

I've found you can do decent aoe dps in m+ if you run Subterfuge/Vigor/Alacrity. Getting 3-4 garrotes out on targets immediately then following up with 2-3 ruptures built up with fan your energy regen goes through the roof and you are able to pump out the envenoms to fish for the PB procs.

[Kalador]

I've found you can do decent aoe dps in m+ if you run Subterfuge/Vigor/Alacrity. Getting 3-4 garrotes out on targets immediately then following up with 2-3 ruptures built up with fan your energy regen goes through the roof and you are able to pump out the envenoms to fish for the PB procs.

Yeah alacrity is a good talent for trash. The problème i have with running alacrity sin in m+ is that you lose so much boss damage from it. If I want to run a trash dmg build I'll go outlaw, if I play sin it's because I need st not pure trash dmg as even alacrity sin can't match well played outlaw with optimized MFD reset on trash.

Edit

Bribe is also something not to undestimate in some dungeon. In archway for example it's fucking broken good.

[Greylan]

Bribe is also something not to undestimate in some dungeon. In archway for example it's fucking broken good.

Sure is, love that haste circle -- Bribe works great in MoS (Mistmender) and HoV (the purifier guy before Hyrja). Any other good bribe targets any rogues know about? I'd read that the murloc stalker in Eye applies his damage taken debuff to enemies when bribed, but I've never seen it myself.

[Kalador]

Sure is, love that haste circle -- Bribe works great in MoS (Mistmender) and HoV (the purifier guy before Hyrja). Any other good bribe targets any rogues know about? I'd read that the murloc stalker in Eye applies his damage taken debuff to enemies when bribed, but I've never seen it myself.

Yeah I would love to know more about it... I'm almost sure there is at least one mob per dungeons worth bribing

[Deleted]

Destruction's damage isn't as high as it should be. In particular, some of its spells that should feel the most rewarding aren't hitting hard enough, especially in AoE situations.

Here's hoping assassination will get the same treatment. Though it's not likely given our history.

[ro9ue]

I think an easy fix is for Poison Bomb to be able to be manually triggered - and if they need to adjust numbers that's fine. But I was thinking if you FoK and hit 3 or more targets, your next envenom has a 100% chance to proc a poison bomb.

[Tier539]

Yeah alacrity is a good talent for trash. The problème i have with running alacrity sin in m+ is that you lose so much boss damage from it. If I want to run a trash dmg build I'll go outlaw, if I play sin it's because I need st not pure trash dmg as even alacrity sin can't match well played outlaw with optimized MFD reset on trash.

Edit

Bribe is also something not to undestimate in some dungeon. In archway for example it's fucking broken good.

Alacrity can definitely be swapped out for Exang and you'll get a bunch of that boss damage back, but as far as pure AoE goes subterfuge is a really solid talent for us right now.

[honung]

I don't think Blizzard wants Assassination to be competitive on AoE. Our niche is supposed to be single-target. But if we're going to be pretty much the worst spec in the game on AoE, I think our single-target should be fantastic to make up for it. Right now it's good, but I don't think it's high enough to justify how bad we are on AoE. The AP nerf seemed uncalled for, but they're likely balancing around proper NH gear so we'll see how it turns out in the end.

[Essem]

The whole pure dps classes and niches is just triggering me. Why should a pure class be penalized for playing a specc and having to maintain multiple speccs for different things mythic+ raids etc. Meanwhile Ret paladins as an example are good at everything, single target, aoe burst etc. It is what it is i guess, but they should really try and fix that.

[TheRogue]

The whole pure dps classes and niches is just triggering me. Why should a pure class be penalized for playing a specc and having to maintain multiple speccs for different things mythic+ raids etc. Meanwhile Ret paladins as an example are good at everything, single target, aoe burst etc. It is what it is i guess, but they should really try and fix that.

It is absolutely a flawed design. But they have backed themselves in to a corner and will not admit its a mistake.