Nazis were right wing, not left

[Forogil]

So you think the only thing the traditional far right cared about was preserving the monarchy and not what it stood for? Interesting idea.

No, preserving the monarchy and what it stood for. The nazists were not primarily focused on either of those.

[Shiandra]

but at the same time i have a really hard time to find out what really is the motivation behind the new US president. He said so many things to different crowds that its hard for me to get a grasp of the man, but thats the problem with populism.

Actually its not. The bottom line between Hitler and Trump, was the desire for prominence, power and authority. While our governmental system will hinder him, those over lining factors are still the same.

[Kellhound]

Mhmm and?

Unless you can find examples of American mainstream political ideology fitting Stalinism, like the far-/alt-right with Nazism, your statement is moot.

You did not specify "US Mainstream political ideology" in your statement.

[LowarST]

Could have saved 20 pages for generally useless banter with the Nazi game plan. Healthy doses of right and left to me.

1. We demand the union of all Germans in a Great Germany on the basis of the principle of self-determination of all peoples.
2. We demand that the German people have rights equal to those of other nations; and that the Peace Treaties of Versailles and St. Germain shall be abrogated.
3. We demand land and territory (colonies) for the maintenance of our people and the settlement of our surplus population.
4. Only those who are our fellow countrymen can become citizens. Only those who have German blood, regardless of creed, can be our countrymen. Hence no Jew can be a countryman.
5. Those who are not citizens must live in Germany as foreigners and must be subject to the law of aliens.
6. The right to choose the government and determine the laws of the State shall belong only to citizens. We therefore demand that no public office, of whatever nature, whether in the central government, the province, or the municipality, shall be held by anyone who is not a citizen.

We wage war against the corrupt parliamentary administration whereby men are appointed to posts by favor of the party without regard to character and fitness.

7. We demand that the State shall above all undertake to ensure that every citizen shall have the possibility of living decently and earning a livelihood. If it should not be possible to feed the whole population, then aliens (non-citizens) must be expelled from the Reich.
8. Any further immigration of non-Germans must be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans who have entered Germany since August 2, 1914, shall be compelled to leave the Reich immediately.
9. All citizens must possess equal rights and duties.
10. The first duty of every citizen must be to work mentally or physically. No individual shall do any work that offends against the interest of the community to the benefit of all.

Therefore we demand:
11. That all unearned income, and all income that does not arise from work, be abolished.
12. Since every war imposes on the people fearful sacrifices in blood and treasure, all personal profit arising from the war must be regarded as treason to the people. We therefore demand the total confiscation of all war profits.
13. We demand the nationalization of all trusts.
14. We demand profit-sharing in large industries.
15. We demand a generous increase in old-age pensions.
16. We demand the creation and maintenance of a sound middle-class, the immediate communalization of large stores which will be rented cheaply to small tradespeople, and the strongest consideration must be given to ensure that small traders shall deliver the supplies needed by the State, the provinces and municipalities.
17. We demand an agrarian reform in accordance with our national requirements, and the enactment of a law to expropriate the owners without compensation of any land needed for the common purpose. The abolition of ground rents, and the prohibition of all speculation in land.
18. We demand that ruthless war be waged against those who work to the injury of the common welfare. Traitors, usurers, profiteers, etc., are to be punished with death, regardless of creed or race.
19. We demand that Roman law, which serves a materialist ordering of the world, be replaced by German common law.
20. In order to make it possible for every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education, and thus the opportunity to reach into positions of leadership, the State must assume the responsibility of organizing thoroughly the entire cultural system of the people. The curricula of all educational establishments shall be adapted to practical life. The conception of the State Idea (science of citizenship) must be taught in the schools from the very beginning. We demand that specially talented children of poor parents, whatever their station or occupation, be educated at the expense of the State.
21. The State has the duty to help raise the standard of national health by providing maternity welfare centers, by prohibiting juvenile labor, by increasing physical fitness through the introduction of compulsory games and gymnastics, and by the greatest possible encouragement of associations concerned with the physical education of the young.
22. We demand the abolition of the regular army and the creation of a national (folk) army.
23. We demand that there be a legal campaign against those who propagate deliberate political lies and disseminate them through the press. In order to make possible the creation of a German press, we demand:
(a) All editors and their assistants on newspapers published in the German language shall be German citizens.
(b) Non-German newspapers shall only be published with the express permission of the State. They must not be published in the German language.
(c) All financial interests in or in any way affecting German newspapers shall be forbidden to non-Germans by law, and we demand that the punishment for transgressing this law be the immediate suppression of the newspaper and the expulsion of the non-Germans from the Reich.
Newspapers transgressing against the common welfare shall be suppressed. We demand legal action against those tendencies in art and literature that have a disruptive influence upon the life of our folk, and that any organizations that offend against the foregoing demands shall be dissolved.
24. We demand freedom for all religious faiths in the state, insofar as they do not endanger its existence or offend the moral and ethical sense of the Germanic race.
The party as such represents the point of view of a positive Christianity without binding itself to any one particular confession. It fights against the Jewish materialist spirit within and without, and is convinced that a lasting recovery of our folk can only come about from within on the pinciple:

COMMON GOOD BEFORE INDIVIDUAL GOOD

25. In order to carry out this program we demand: the creation of a strong central authority in the State, the unconditional authority by the political central parliament of the whole State and all its organizations.
The formation of professional committees and of committees representing the several estates of the realm, to ensure that the laws promulgated by the central authority shall be carried out by the federal states.
The leaders of the party undertake to promote the execution of the foregoing points at all costs, if necessary at the sacrifice of their own lives.

[hakujinbakasama]

Really wish someone of the people who are so up in arms about this would co check and see where the 1950 Democrats and 1850 Republicans were on this current age spectrum.

[Glorious Leader]

Much like the soviets any actual left wing elements were merely tools to garner popular support (socalism was and is very popular idea). Any members of the party who actual retained those values when coming into power were promptly murdered or sent into exhile. Thus the ideal was purged. And neither party can be said to have been genuienly "left" or socialist. The party systems were hierarchical and became decidedly unsocialistic very fast.

[hakujinbakasama]

Much like the soviets any actual left wing elements were merely tools to garner popular support (socalism was and is very popular idea). Any members of the party who actual retained those values when coming into power were promptly murdered or sent into exhile. Thus the ideal was purged. And neither party can be said to have been genuienly "left" or socialist. The party systems were hierarchical and became decidedly unsocialistic very fast.

True, but the initial support came from leftist-populists. Which is exactly the key demographic of the current "liberals" in the United States.

[Glorious Leader]

True, but the initial support came from leftist-populists. Which is exactly the key demographic of the current "liberals" in the United States.

Socialism is an incredible popular idea. That its name is abused by unsavory individuals and groups is a shame. Groups and leaders use the rhetoric and appeal of socialism but in action they abandon most if not all of the principles. Witness the claim that hitler was a socialist because he put people back to work and took em off a gold standard. Usually people claim he was a socialist based on this fact but it ignores every other attrocious and regressive aspect of the nazi party. You can be in favor of effective economic policy and not be a socialist or a nazi.

[NihilSustinet]

wasnt the term nazi actually a slur towards the socialist party ?

Well yes and no. The national Socialist party, or Nationalsozialismus in german, was the nazi party. they called them Nazi's because of the Na and the Zi in the german spelling. They weren't socialists by the current definition of the word (aka the leninist or marxist versions) but they were socialists by Mussolini's definition of the word, which we now know as fascism.

National socialism and modern european socialism have almost nothing in common.

[hakujinbakasama]

Socialism is an incredible popular idea. That its name is abused by unsavory individuals and groups is a shame. Groups and leaders use the rhetoric and appeal of socialism but in action they abandon most if not all of the principles. Witness the claim that hitler was a socialist because he put people back to work and took em off a gold standard. Usually people claim he was a socialist based on this fact but it ignores every other attrocious and regressive aspect of the nazi party. You can be in favor of effective economic policy and not be a socialist or a nazi.

No I completely agree. However, I'm more concerned with the populist who was all too fucking happy to go along with the crazy leaders and give way to their power than I am with the particular leader. At the end of the discussion, in so many historical examples, it was leftist-populist who put into place dictators under the promise and dream of free shit.

[Glorious Leader]

Well yes and no. The national Socialist party, or Nationalsozialismus in german, was the nazi party. they called them Nazi's because of the Na and the Zi in the german spelling. They weren't socialists by the current definition of the word (aka the leninist or marxist versions) but they were socialists by Mussolini's definition of the word, which we now know as fascism.

National socialism and modern european socialism have almost nothing in common.

None of those groups were socialists currently or at the time they just abused the name because of its popularity.

Of course this begs the question what is socialism? The major socialist thinkers were also all anarchists of one flavor or another. Bakunin, proudhon, kropotkin etc etc. If i had to argue ome commom thread between them it would the desire for genuine freedom. No gods, no masters, no bosses.

[Super Kami Dende]

I often laugh when people say "Omg you are a Nationalist?! THE NAZI's were Nationalists!!" when most the time it is a person that pushes Socialism and I say to them "Omg you are a Socialist?! NAZIS WERE SOCIALIST!! "

[Glorious Leader]

No I completely agree. However, I'm more concerned with the populist who was all too fucking happy to go along with the crazy leaders and give way to their power than I am with the particular leader. At the end of the discussion, in so many historical examples, it was leftist-populist who put into place dictators under the promise and dream of free shit.

Because they dreamed of a better world for them and their children. Thats tough though. On the one hand youre right. People have to be more active in keeping their leaders accountable. On the other hand i mean they were in a bad way. Poor and hungry and didnt want the same for their kids.

[Mayhem]

No, preserving the monarchy and what it stood for. The nazists were not primarily focused on either of those.

What´s the difference between a monarch and a dictator?

[Deleted]

What´s the difference between a monarch and a dictator?

One is a chief of state (from liberal to absolute) and the other is an authoritarian chief of state?

[boccko]

'National socialism is right wing, and for some reason I feel a constant urge to prove it.'

National socialism is socialist redistribution restricted to members of the nation. Left wing, deal with it.

[Glorious Leader]

What´s the difference between a monarch and a dictator?

Divine appointment passed down through hereditary.

[NihilSustinet]

None of those groups were socialists currently or at the time they just abused the name because of its popularity.

Of course this begs the question what is socialism? The major socialist thinkers were also all anarchists of one flavor or another. Bakunin, proudhon, kropotkin etc etc. If i had to argue ome commom thread between them it would the desire for genuine freedom. No gods, no masters, no bosses.

Except none of that is true, but sure.

[Deleted]

Nazis were fascist aka authoritarian nationalist. And they also were socialists, not capitalists. There was pretty much nothing capitalist about nazism.

Left wing = socialism, right wing = capitalism

So, nazis were left wing.

If you can't handle that truth, go have your temper tantrum somewhere else.

/thread

Yup. /close

[Deleted]

National socialism is socialist redistribution restricted to members of the nation. Left wing, deal with it.

What?

"Although the Nazi Party election programs supported nationalization of major industries, the Nazi government included a few actual policies of privatization in the 1930s.[46] Between the fiscal years 1934/35 and 1937/38, privatization represented 1.4 percent of the German government's revenues.[47] Among companies that were privatized, were the four major commercial banks in Germany that had all come under public ownership during the prior years; Commerz– und Privatbank, Deutsche Bank und Disconto-Gesellschaft, Golddiskontbank and Dresdner Bank. Instead of making important investment decisions, and determining the use to which their funds were to be put, the private banks merely had to provide the technical facilities for covering government expenditure or financing new investment—the volume and composition of which had been previously settled by the government.[48][clarification needed] Also privatized were the Deutsche Reichsbahn (German Railways), at the time the largest single public enterprise in the world, the Vereinigte Stahlwerke A.G. (United Steelworks), the second largest joint-stock company in Germany (the largest was IG Farben) and Vereinigte Oberschlesische Hüttenwerke AG, a company controlling all of the metal production in the Upper Silesian coal and steel industry. The government also sold a number of shipbuilding companies, and enhanced private utilities at the expense of municipally owned utilities companies."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Nazi_Germany