High End Trinket Questions + CoF meta reduction (Complete Answer in one place???)

[Frizzaudh]

I have been simming/sifting through discord, wowhead, mmo to try to get answers about CoF viability vs. other trinkets and pieces.

I was hoping to get the answers in one location

To make it simple, let's assume 4 piece (helm, chest, legs, cloak). You can add in the arcway/CoS set pieces but the real question comes down to trinket combinations.

Also, assume all 890 trinkets. We can all adjust of course if you get a 920 or something.

1). CoF, leggy shoulders, AotHG - how many relics do you need to get meta to a two minute CD? That is, CoF only seems viable if you can get meta to a 2 ish minute CD. Can someone please give a definite answer to what amount of meta reducing relics are required to get the CD to 2 minutes if using shoulders, ring, and CoF.

For example, i spent 2300 in the first two minutes of Trillax reducing the CD by 76 seconds. that would mean only 1 relic is required to get it to 2 minutes in 2 minutes (i.e., 4 procs a minute from CoF, 75 from shoulders, 1 relic). Is this correct?

2.) CoF and no leggy shoulders. Is this every viable to get the CD to two minutes? In other words, if using all 3 relics can you get meta to near 2 minutes? It is my understanding that you get about 4 procs per minute so you only reduce the CD to 1:20 left at 2 minute mark such that 3 relics would only reduce it about 40 seconds left at 2 minute mark making shoulders required. Can someone please confirm if CoF is only viable is you have shoulders.

Trinket questions in general

Can someone please provide sims for the below assuming 890:

I am including memento in here because a lot of people have it or it is easy to obtain from maw.

1.) Entwined Elemental Foci / Memento of Angerboda;

2.) Entwined Elemental Foci / Ursoc trinket

3.) Entwined Elemental Foci / Leggy trinket

4. Entwined Elemental Foci / Draught of Souls

5.) Draught of Souls / Leggy Trinket

6.) Draught of Souls / Ursoc


In sum, when does CoF become viable to replace the above 6 combinations. Please link sims to help all DH's since this general post is EVERYWHERE with no good answers.

[Deleted]

Well, about CoF, it procs approximately 3 times per minut which equals 15sec reduced per minut. This means, that you should be able to use Meta every 3min 15sec during a fight. What I belive, is that for 7min fights, CoF becomes better than Ursoc and Memento as you get to use meta three times during an encounter instead of two (Start burst, 3min 15sec meta and 6min 30sec meta). Though this makes the meta come out of sync with Nemesis and Chaos Blades, it would should still be viable.
So, acording to your statement about reducing the CD of meta by 76sec with shoulders, you will have CoF (45sec) + Shoulders (76sec) = 2min 1sec reduced CD on meta, which the lines perfectly up with Chaos Blades and Nemesis. But as written ealier, CoF proc approximately 3 times per minut, which means that to be "sure" that you'll have Meta on a 2min CD, you should be equipping 1 Meta CD reducing relic.

Tl;dr: CoF>Bloodthristy/Memento for 7min fights, or any fight where you can use 1 extra meta oppsed to not having it. Meta can become 2min CD with 1 CD relic, Shoulders and CoF.

[Holypaladin]

If u have been on discord you should know there is a trinket list there.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets..._047I/pubhtml#

[Deleted]

I tested 4 piece + AothG + Shoulders, Bloodthirst Instinct + CoF on ptr yesterday, I had about 41% crit on that gear and 891 equipped ilvl. I did 2 tries and on both of them meta was basically a 2 minute CD (a couple seconds more). Basically CB and Nemesis was coming off CD and meta was following up in 5-6 seconds.

You don't need any relics to make meta a 2 minute cd with shoulders + CoF.

[enchiridion]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets..._047I/pubhtml# from kib, who wrote the wowhead guide along with zarania, in short, its real value is determined by being able to get another meta in a fight, value goes up if it gets you multiple extra metas

[Littlepwny]

You don't need any relics to make meta a 2 minute cd with shoulders + CoF.

Only if you have Anger of the Half Giants.

[ufta]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets..._047I/pubhtml# from kib, who wrote the wowhead guide along with zarania, in short, its real value is determined by being able to get another meta in a fight, value goes up if it gets you multiple extra metas

This is the answer right here.
The OP is confusing the words "viable" and "optimal". They are not synonyms.
You could make a good case that the optimal situation would be for the meta cd to be exactly 2 mins so that it lines up with other cds, but that doesn't mean that CoF is worthless if this number can't be reached. I mean, if equipping CoF allows you to do more dmg on a given fight, then it's absolutely viable.
Because fight length is so critical in determining whether CoF (and also the leg. shoulders and meta relics) allow you an extra cast of meta, you can't evaluate these items in a vacuum. If either or both of these items give you one extra meta on a given fight , then they are fantastic regardless of whether or not that meta lines up with other cds or not. If they don't give an extra meta, then they are nothing but a stat stick.

[Frizzaudh]

If u have been on discord you should know there is a trinket list there.

this trinket list is for individual trinkets but not as sets.

For example, momento and foci procing with set from arcway/CoS is like 13k mastery on pull (plus the other stats on multi procs). Is that better with burst windows than say ursoc and momento?

[Deleted]

Memento isn't guaranteed to proc mastery. Unreliability makes for the random nice parse, but in progress - as most of us are right now because let's be honest, mythic isn't done and HC isn't in farming for most of us - all that matters is reliability and execution.

So follow the trinket list if you don't want to #simyoself, it's easy enough to be understood by anybody.

[Kosy]

If u have been on discord you should know there is a trinket list there.

Strange numbers here...
I have tested Arcanogolem digit(910) in Havoc spec and for all boss fights /dungeon trash it ends up with 0.1-0.3% of overal DPS. For example - on Kros heroic fight I've got 2 procs 150k damage total.

[Baelroc]

Memento isn't guaranteed to proc mastery. Unreliability makes for the random nice parse, but in progress - as most of us are right now because let's be honest, mythic isn't done and HC isn't in farming for most of us - all that matters is reliability and execution.

So follow the trinket list if you don't want to #simyoself, it's easy enough to be understood by anybody.

Actually, in progress Memento is even better because of the guaranteed proc on someone's death. In progress you will regularly have people dying.

Not to mention the fact that since the changes all of our secondaries are quite good and there isnt the giant delta between stat weights like their used to be. So Memento procs are much more valuable, regardless of type.

[Stanislav]

i only got the shoulders and i had a 2:30min meta on krasus (patchwerk) i got one relic for meta.

the trinket procs 4 times per min (4.35ppm for havoc) thats 20sec off every min.

you might need 1-2 relics to make it a comfy 2min cd all the time, or if you got the ring i dont think you need any relics at all.

also dont forget our set bonus 2/4 both make this build better since you generate more and refund more.

[jayinjersey]

Of course all those lists are the 7.1.5 release versions of the trinkets...we'll have to see when the sims get updated how that spreadsheet changes.

[Sylvaeres]

I have shoulders, relic from Gul'Dan and CoF, and with a little bit of fury generation and some luck, I can almost sync CB/Nem with Metal everytime. I feel like with one more relic or the AotG ring I'd have no problems getting it to 2 minutes