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  1. #181
    The core idea behind discipline(i.e. atonement) is fine.
    It is most definitely better than the absorb PW:S spam priest of the past.
    Balance wise and gameplay wise.
    But there are some disconnects.

    The core problem in my opinion is the insane amount of punishment for misplay and the inconsistent design choices.

    Take for example the way trinkets work for discipline:
    Healing trinkets deal no additional damage and therefore don't really fit the theme of a "damage healer".
    DPS trinkets fit theme wise, but Blizzard nerfed them into nirvana.

    Same with certain traits from our artifact weapon and how in the end the discipline priest currently works.
    Borrowed time gives you 5% haste per trait point for the next damage spell each time you apply atonement to someone.
    If you wanted to maximize the effect, you would have to weave your heal and damage spells.
    Currently the most efficient way to play discipline is to simply blanked the raid in atonement,
    wait for burst aoe damage and than deal a short amount of burst damage.
    Zero weaving involved.

    Light's Wrath and Plea are into punishment and pain.
    Plea quite frankly murders your mana each time you cast it after 5 activ atonements.
    Power Word: Radiance and Shadow Mend are great spells but mana efficient they are not.
    If you don't have innervate or an GBofW activ you better stop casting and watch other people heal.

    Light's Wrath scaling with atonement is just plain bullshit.
    Thanks to the 10% additional damage per atonement you have some kind of exponential scaling.
    The more atonement effects you have activ, the better the spell gets.
    10 atonements -> 200% damage, 1000% healing (50% healing transfer)
    20 atonements -> 300% damage, 3000% healing (50% healing transfer)
    So basically... you double the amount of atonement and get triple the healing.

    Those two spells highlight the inflexibility of the spec.
    You currently can't moderate the amount of active atonement buffs in a natural fluid way.
    Want to conserve mana? Stop casting.
    To stop casting should never ever be the answer.

    In my opinion a discipline priest should always have enough mana to cast plea and smite.
    All the other healers have one spammable spell that is more or less mana neutral.
    Discipline does not have that.

    Thanks to that missing flexibility it also becomes almost impossible to heal moderat spot damage.
    The second you have 5 active atonements, you are locked down for the next 5-6 seconds until the first effect starts to wear off.
    The only way for discipline to react to that kind of damage is to murder your mana bar with either Shadow Mend or Plea 5+

    I personally think that there are some steps that would help Discipline a lot:

    1. Fix mastery:
    Since mastery only buffs healing, Discipline currently suffers from a scaling problem, damage wise.
    The higher the gear gets ilvl wise, the worse the damage output gets compared to the rest of the raid.
    Tanks had the same problem in the past. The only answer Blizzard found in the end, was to let secondary stats buff both damage and defense.
    So same treatment for Discipline. Instead of buffing the atonement percentage, Mastery should simply be a flat buff to our damage spells.
    That would boost healing and damage at the same time, while still only applying to atonement healing.

    2. Fix trinkets:
    Make classical healing trinkets unusable. Make AoE damage trinkets unusable.
    Let single target damage trinkets deal a proper amount of damage (in the current situation... buff them!).

    3. Remove the unnecessary punishment from Light's Wrath:
    Thanks to travel time and long cast time Light's Wrath is quite the pain to use.
    I personally think that simple would work a lot better here.
    Keep the cast time. Keep the travel time. But remove the 10% bonus scaling.
    And the remove atonement from it.
    When the spell hits its target, the target suffers some amount of damage and the raid/group gets healed.
    Perhaps add some kind of splash holy animation to highlight the non atonement healing.

    4. Make atonement more like rejuvenation and less like a complex revival.
    I think discipline would feel a lot better if you could always cast smite and plea as a baseline.
    If additional hps on the same amount of targets is needed Penance could be the answer. But Penance should be expensive.
    Perhaps remove the cooldown, make it cost more mana and nerf the output to a sensible level.
    If healing on more targets is needed Power Word: Radiance should be the answer.
    But the basic rotation should always be DPS-Spell -> Heal-Spell -> DPS-Spell -> ...
    Plea should only apply atonement, for a small fixed amount of mana.
    Last edited by Geschan; 2017-02-13 at 12:53 AM.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Geschan View Post
    The core idea behind discipline(i.e. atonement) is fine.
    It is most definitely better than the absorb PW:S spam priest of the past.
    Balance wise and gameplay wise.
    But there are some disconnects.

    The core problem in my opinion is the insane amount of punishment for misplay and the inconsistent design choices.

    Take for example the way trinkets work for discipline:
    Healing trinkets deal no additional damage and therefore don't really fit the theme of a "damage healer".
    DPS trinkets fit theme wise, but Blizzard nerfed them into nirvana.

    Same with certain traits from our artifact weapon and how in the end the discipline priest currently works.
    Borrowed time gives you 5% haste per trait point for the next damage spell each time you apply atonement to someone.
    If you wanted to maximize the effect, you would have to weave your heal and damage spells.
    Currently the most efficient way to play discipline is to simply blanked the raid in atonement,
    wait for burst aoe damage and than deal a short amount of burst damage.
    Zero weaving involved.

    Light's Wrath and Plea are into punishment and pain.
    Plea quite frankly murders your mana each time you cast it after 5 activ atonements.
    Power Word: Radiance and Shadow Mend are great spells but mana efficient they are not.
    If you don't have innervate or an GBofW activ you better stop casting and watch other people heal.

    Light's Wrath scaling with atonement is just plain bullshit.
    Thanks to the 10% additional damage per atonement you have some kind of exponential scaling.
    The more atonement effects you have activ, the better the spell gets.
    10 atonements -> 200% damage, 1000% healing (50% healing transfer)
    20 atonements -> 300% damage, 3000% healing (50% healing transfer)
    So basically... you double the amount of atonement and get triple the healing.

    Those two spells highlight the inflexibility of the spec.
    You currently can't moderate the amount of active atonement buffs in a natural fluid way.
    Want to conserve mana? Stop casting.
    To stop casting should never ever be the answer.

    In my opinion a discipline priest should always have enough mana to cast plea and smite.
    All the other healers have one spammable spell that is more or less mana neutral.
    Discipline does not have that.

    Thanks to that missing flexibility it also becomes almost impossible to heal moderat spot damage.
    The second you have 5 active atonements, you are locked down for the next 5-6 seconds until the first effect starts to wear off.
    The only way for discipline to react to that kind of damage is to murder your mana bar with either Shadow Mend or Plea 5+

    I personally think that there are some steps that would help Discipline a lot:

    1. Fix mastery:
    Since mastery only buffs healing, Discipline currently suffers from a scaling problem, damage wise.
    The higher the gear gets ilvl wise, the worse the damage output gets compared to the rest of the raid.
    Tanks had the same problem in the past. The only answer Blizzard found in the end, was to let secondary stats buff both damage and defense.
    So same treatment for Discipline. Instead of buffing the atonement percentage, Mastery should simply be a flat buff to our damage spells.
    That would boost healing and damage at the same time, while still only applying to atonement healing.

    2. Fix trinkets:
    Make classical healing trinkets unusable. Make AoE damage trinkets unusable.
    Let single target damage trinkets deal a proper amount of damage (in the current situation... buff them!).

    3. Remove the unnecessary punishment from Light's Wrath:
    Thanks to travel time and long cast time Light's Wrath is quite the pain to use.
    I personally think that simple would work a lot better here.
    Keep the cast time. Keep the travel time. But remove the 10% bonus scaling.
    And the remove atonement from it.
    When the spell hits its target, the target suffers some amount of damage and the raid/group gets healed.
    Perhaps add some kind of splash holy animation to highlight the non atonement healing.

    4. Make atonement more like rejuvenation and less like a complex revival.
    I think discipline would feel a lot better if you could always cast smite and plea as a baseline.
    If additional hps on the same amount of targets is needed Penance could be the answer. But Penance should be expensive.
    Perhaps remove the cooldown, make it cost more mana and nerf the output to a sensible level.
    If healing on more targets is needed Power Word: Radiance should be the answer.
    But the basic rotation should always be DPS-Spell -> Heal-Spell -> DPS-Spell -> ...
    Plea should only apply atonement, for a small fixed amount of mana.
    1. So basically, Versatility?

    2. This isn't the solution. Make throughput trinkets and DPS trinkets more viable for Disc by modifying the benefit we receive from them would be a better solution, rather than removing them completely from our loot table.

    3. Why would you want to remove the Atonement from LW but add in a blanket heal? The point of Disc is to actively apply Atonement. The solution here wouldn't be to make LW "retard proof", it would be to make applying Atonements for the burst easier. Your solution doesn't fit into the current play style at all; we may as well be given Revival.

    4. You're wanting to make Disc a reactive healer, when that is not what it's been for a while now. The current play style is far more engaging than previous iterations, and honestly, if you want a reactive raid healer, Druids are a good choice.

    My point is you're misunderstanding the concept of Discipline entirely. There are fixes that maintain the current play style while also removing some of the major hurdles of learning the spec. The best (and simplest) way to "fix" Discipline is to adjust how Atonements are applied. As far as I can tell, this is the direction Blizzard is looking to go based on Sigma's post on the EU forums.

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noradin View Post
    The problem with this is that sometimes mechanics prevent us from pulling our weight (if we have to run out of range just before that damage hits for example) and thus raid leaders just plan around disc and set up a list of raid cooldowns leaving disc superfluous.
    Mechanics that stop you setting up is extremely rare. I mean we've done 20 bosses so far, and krosus has been the only boss that has mechanics that force you out of range. That's also incredibly rng.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Geschan View Post
    1. Fix mastery:
    Since mastery only buffs healing, Discipline currently suffers from a scaling problem, damage wise.
    The higher the gear gets ilvl wise, the worse the damage output gets compared to the rest of the raid.
    Tanks had the same problem in the past. The only answer Blizzard found in the end, was to let secondary stats buff both damage and defense.
    So same treatment for Discipline. Instead of buffing the atonement percentage, Mastery should simply be a flat buff to our damage spells.
    That would boost healing and damage at the same time, while still only applying to atonement healing.
    I'm fine with this idea, but blizzard should do this for every healer as well. Every healer is having a problem with damage scaling. Alternatively, blizzard could just buff artifical damage for all healers.

  4. #184
    Deleted
    listen basically if they made discipline retard proof so i could lay my filthy mongrel hands on it and play like a god with literally zero thought or effort, it would be a fixed specialization. until then its broken and over punishing... you think i can look at boss timers for a double digit number, and use my brain to predict incoming abilities? what do you think i am some kind of autist? discipline is BROKEN. B R O K E N.

  5. #185
    Dreadlord Rife's Avatar
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    Shadow Covenant is meant to be the reactive healing crutch Blizzard intended for the spec.

    Fix SC.
    Make Mastery increase damage done rather than atonement transfer.
    Remove Boomy Innervate from the game.
    Make Plea free and put it on a charge system.
    Plea atonements transfer double the healing of normal atonements.
    Make PtW spread to 3/4 targets but has half the duration cos I'm lazy in M+.

    Discs can now atonement heal tanks in dungeons, deal proper damage that scales with gear, weave Plea's preemptively without feeling punished and have a working SC option for fights that don't work well with stacked atonement but the complexity, gameplay and power of current Disc stays the same.

    Done.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by MendUS View Post
    1. So basically, Versatility?

    2. This isn't the solution. Make throughput trinkets and DPS trinkets more viable for Disc by modifying the benefit we receive from them would be a better solution, rather than removing them completely from our loot table.

    3. Why would you want to remove the Atonement from LW but add in a blanket heal? The point of Disc is to actively apply Atonement. The solution here wouldn't be to make LW "retard proof", it would be to make applying Atonements for the burst easier. Your solution doesn't fit into the current play style at all; we may as well be given Revival.

    4. You're wanting to make Disc a reactive healer, when that is not what it's been for a while now. The current play style is far more engaging than previous iterations, and honestly, if you want a reactive raid healer, Druids are a good choice.
    1. Versatility increases damage, all healing (inc. Shadow Mend, PW:S, ...) and reduces damage taken.
    My version of mastery would only increase damage and atonement healing. Direct healing spells would not benefit at all.
    So not quite the same. But it would help with the damage scaling. A lot.

    2. Healing trinkets don't fit the theme in my opinion. Could you leave them in and balanced? Sure. BUT Legion is all about the theme.
    Both Single target and AoE damage procs are currently unusable.
    Single target procs don't add enough benefit to sacrifice a mana trinket for them.
    AoE damage procs have a balance issue. Either you remove them or you add the same mechanic
    that Halo and Divine Star are using. (You don't want discipline healing to scale with the number of enemies)
    Even than, there still is that mana issue.

    3. The thing is, I don't think there is way to properly achieve that.
    If applying atonements to the whole raid becomes "easy" it needs to have serious restrictions.
    For healing spells those restrictions are usually a) a cooldown, or b) high mana costs. In the end it won't matter.
    Both limit the amount of times the method can be used.
    So you would only use it when you could reap the full benefits of it.
    That is basically every time LW is used.
    One thing Blizzard did when redesigning the classes was to remove unneeded key presses.
    When two spells where always used at the same time in the same order why force the player to use two separate spells at all?
    B) is especially problematic since it would enhance the dependence on innervate and GBoW.

    4. Is that the polite way to tell me "git gud or gtfo"?
    I don't have a problem with discipline being slightly worse at reacting than other healers.
    But currently we can't react at all. Thanks to Plea, Mana and other spell mechanics, half the time the best way to "react" to random damage,
    is to react not at all and let somebody else deal with it. That is not good gameplay.

    I do understand the current concept of Discipline quite well. Load up on atonement, burst heal, go afk.
    Huge amounts of random damage? Beg for innervates and GBoW or switch to holy.
    That is not a concept. It's sloppy.
    I absolutely agree with Sigma.
    But I don't think that charges or cooldowns are even needed.
    Cast time is already limiting the amount of active atonements.
    Need more healing? Use more expensive spells that apply more atonements in the same time.
    That way you can keep the flexibility but still limit the possible healing output.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Geschan View Post
    4. Is that the polite way to tell me "git gud or gtfo"?
    I don't have a problem with discipline being slightly worse at reacting than other healers.
    But currently we can't react at all. Thanks to Plea, Mana and other spell mechanics, half the time the best way to "react" to random damage,
    is to react not at all and let somebody else deal with it. That is not good gameplay.

    I do understand the current concept of Discipline quite well. Load up on atonement, burst heal, go afk.
    Huge amounts of random damage? Beg for innervates and GBoW or switch to holy.
    That is not a concept. It's sloppy.
    No offense but i dont think you understand the concept at all when you
    1. ask if the statement of disci being reactive translate into "git good": No its a simple statement of the current state, where exactly did you see the elitist attitude? Please quote.

    2. You want to be little less reactive than others but not non reactive at all. You want a radical change to the class design as it is. I will not argue wether its good or not, but ill tell you that you treat this as some kind of mistake. Its not. Its a conscious class design. Just roll another spec, why do you HAVE to insist they abandon and scrap all the work, in order to make disci an imitation of the other style which already exists?

    3. Massive random damage? Where? Point the instance you face such a situation. and holy would have been good because you would press Hymn or what? I dont know.

    4. You did not describe the spec, You described why you dont like the spec, and added some imaginary scenarios which i have yet to see. Beg for innervates? Please state your experience and character name so i can see those logs where you played well and just could not perform due to the design being externally mana dependent.

    And no i am not being elitist, i simply want to see the experience that created these negative feelings to you, just like i asked desmonda about it. Facts, numbers, recorded data. We need them to make proper analysis and reach a conclusion.

    Second Edit:
    I believe i found you. I noticed you were running paradox which has a horrible proc at the moment and its mana regen value is near worthless. On the other hand you have not been making very good use of PW:S cd and therefore the shield discipline talent, which has excellent mana returns. This would greatly help the mana problem that all discs have to face. What i think is a big mistake however is running less than 10% haste. It greatly hinders your atonement healing. Also mind your plea to activate legendary chest effect. At some point you used 4 plea in a row with 12 atonements already up. Thats about 200k mana!

    Overall i believe you might have missed some details and therefore not experienced the true potential of discipline.
    Last edited by Popokolara; 2017-02-13 at 02:59 PM.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Popokolara View Post
    Second Edit:
    I believe i found you. I noticed you were running paradox which has a horrible proc at the moment and its mana regen value is near worthless. On the other hand you have not been making very good use of PW:S cd and therefore the shield discipline talent, which has excellent mana returns. This would greatly help the mana problem that all discs have to face. What i think is a big mistake however is running less than 10% haste. It greatly hinders your atonement healing. Also mind your plea to activate legendary chest effect. At some point you used 4 plea in a row with 12 atonements already up. Thats about 200k mana!

    Overall i believe you might have missed some details and therefore not experienced the true potential of discipline.
    Haste also increases mana regen by decreasing PWS CD and thus making SD more potent, increases HPM of PtW/SWP, increases length of burst windows by reducing PWR cast time, etc. Seems to me like he might have a misunderstanding of the spec... like I assumed.

    Specing into Grace is questionable as well...
    Last edited by MendUS; 2017-02-13 at 03:06 PM.

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Popokolara View Post
    No offense but i dont think you understand the concept at all when you
    1. ask if the statement of disci being reactive translate into "git good": No its a simple statement of the current state, where exactly did you see the elitist attitude? Please quote.

    2. You want to be little less reactive than others but not non reactive at all. You want a radical change to the class design as it is. I will not argue wether its good or not, but ill tell you that you treat this as some kind of mistake. Its not. Its a conscious class design. Just roll another spec, why do you HAVE to insist they abandon and scrap all the work, in order to make disci an imitation of the other style which already exists?

    3. Massive random damage? Where? Point the instance you face such a situation. and holy would have been good because you would press Hymn or what? I dont know.

    4. You did not describe the spec, You described why you dont like the spec, and added some imaginary scenarios which i have yet to see. Beg for innervates? Please state your experience and character name so i can see those logs where you played well and just could not perform due to the design being externally mana dependent.

    And no i am not being elitist, i simply want to see the experience that created these negative feelings to you, just like i asked desmonda about it. Facts, numbers, recorded data. We need them to make proper analysis and reach a conclusion.

    Second Edit:
    I believe i found you. I noticed you were running paradox which has a horrible proc at the moment and its mana regen value is near worthless. On the other hand you have not been making very good use of PW:S cd and therefore the shield discipline talent, which has excellent mana returns. This would greatly help the mana problem that all discs have to face. What i think is a big mistake however is running less than 10% haste. It greatly hinders your atonement healing. Also mind your plea to activate legendary chest effect. At some point you used 4 plea in a row with 12 atonements already up. Thats about 200k mana!

    Overall i believe you might have missed some details and therefore not experienced the true potential of discipline.
    I saw your post asking for my logs and I figured it was in order to berate and belittle me to prove your pro-broken Disc stance but I gave you the benefit of the doubt. However what I am seeing here is you doing exactly that to another poster who has made some excellent points and even some incredible suggestions. Dude, I'll keep it simple, F you.

    Logs have nothing to do with it as far as I am concerned. Limited gameplay, mana issues, over reliance on outside factors and a myopic position in a raid is enough for many to abandoned the spec. Playing holy has opened up several roles for me to play as a healer and I am loving it. Your elitist BS is built on nothing more than weak auras and good timing. If you think that's genius by all means continue to do so. Moving on. As I said before as more ppl abandon the spec Blizz will either do something or try to forget the spec exists. Enjoy playing that broken pos.
    Last edited by Desmonda; 2017-02-13 at 04:09 PM.

  10. #190
    Sooo your answer to me voicing my opinions is to go and look for my logs,
    tell me I'm shit and therefore my opinions don't matter, because I have no idea what I'm talking about.
    So now it's "git gud AND gtfo" at the same time? Really?
    And you are asking where I see an elitist attitude? Oo

    I can take a hint and am leaving the discussion at this point.
    For what it is worth... Thanks for the "tipps".

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Geschan View Post
    Sooo your answer to me voicing my opinions is to go and look for my logs,
    tell me I'm shit and therefore my opinions don't matter, because I have no idea what I'm talking about.
    So now it's "git gud AND gtfo" at the same time? Really?
    And you are asking where I see an elitist attitude? Oo

    I can take a hint and am leaving the discussion at this point.
    For what it is worth... Thanks for the "tipps".
    I don't think it's people being elitist as much as it's people getting tired of other people making suggestions to the spec, but not having an understanding of the current form well enough to make a valid assessment.
    Last edited by MendUS; 2017-02-13 at 04:16 PM.

  12. #192
    This is the point where all discussions fail. I am not belittling. I am pointing out what i recognise as an error. IF my argument is logical, and confirmed by a fact, if my tone of voice is to inform you why fact proves your opinion as wrong, then it is no elitist belittlement but civilised and mature discussion. If you cannot put you the fact before your personal ego then you ultimately are unable to communicate and express any worthwhile opinion. PLEASE quote and answer to my arguments in a CIVILISED and MATURE way, as i have.

    Leave the discussion?why? Why if you actually have an argument that is supported by facts? Because you would rather point me out as some fascist internet bully rather than admit that 1 + 1 is two. The age where my freedom of expression is less important that your ability to be offended.

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by MendUS View Post
    I don't think it's people being elitist as much as it is me thinking it's people getting tired of other people making suggestions to the spec, but not having an understanding of the current form well enough to make a valid assessment.
    Bull. Your claim that no one understands the spec is nonsense. What is there to understand? I saw your YouTube video "explaining" the spec to raid leaders. It is for that very reason the spec is garbage, it shouldn't need a video to explain it. There's no mystery to the spec. It's the only healing spec dependent on raid coordination, innervates and weak auras. What am I missing? Nothing. The spec is simply too niche and limited, players want freedom. And apparently according to you if one doesn't play the spec in way that you believe it to be played they have no right to make suggestions and anything they say is invalid. So this leaves me with one question: why are you in this discussion?
    Last edited by Desmonda; 2017-02-13 at 04:25 PM.

  14. #194
    Edit:

    Fuck it, it's just not worth arguing anymore.
    Last edited by Kuruption; 2017-02-13 at 04:30 PM.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Desmonda View Post
    I saw your post asking for my logs and I figured it was in order to berate and belittle me to prove your pro-broken Disc stance but I gave you the benefit of the doubt. However what I am seeing here is you doing exactly that to another poster who has made some excellent points and even some incredible suggestions. Dude, I'll keep it simple, F you.

    Logs have nothing to do with it as far as I am concerned. Limited gameplay, mana issues, over reliance on outside factors and a myopic position in a raid is enough for many to abandoned the spec. Playing holy has opened up several roles for me to play as a healer and I am loving it. Your elitist BS is built on nothing more than weak auras and good timing. If you think that's genius by all means continue to do so. Moving on. As I said before as more ppl abandon the spec Blizz will either do something or try to forget the spec exists. Enjoy playing that broken pos.
    You run away avoiding to answer any of my arguments, the so called elitist belittling. Where is it then?Quote me?Actually make a counter argument instead of saying: You are rude and wrong, and i dont need to prove it. OK so tell me where does your notion that you are right comes IF you are unable to answer any argument or provide any proof of any kind apart from a the generality of: "Disci heals less. Why? Because i said so. I dont even raid the content or play the class but i know."

    Log does NOT prove the spec viability by itself. It provides the gameplay analysis which can show how different playstyles achieve different results. And based on the results i can draw conclusions.

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuruption View Post
    Edit:

    Fuck it, it's just not worth arguing anymore.
    Glad you see the light, I have. A bunch of elitist disc priests with outside help think the spec is great. Anyone else that questions it needs to "git Gud or gtfo". That's it in a nutshell.

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Desmonda View Post
    Glad you see the light, I have. A bunch of elitist disc priests with outside help think the spec is great. Anyone else that question needs to "got Gud or gtfo". That's it in s nutshell.
    I'm actually against you.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuruption View Post
    I'm actually against you.
    Duh! I'm aware of that hence my response. Bye,

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Geschan View Post
    Sooo your answer to me voicing my opinions is to go and look for my logs,
    tell me I'm shit and therefore my opinions don't matter, because I have no idea what I'm talking about.
    So now it's "git gud AND gtfo" at the same time? Really?
    And you are asking where I see an elitist attitude? Oo

    I can take a hint and am leaving the discussion at this point.
    For what it is worth... Thanks for the "tipps".
    No you do NOT leave because you "got the hint". You leave because you are a coward. You try to make advice look like a bullying attack. How pathetic is that. Is it so important to protect your perception of your infallible self that you will not even admit some simple gameplay mistakes? (I make mistakes all the time. I bet you Sups and MEnd and everyone does) OR defend your gameplay and claim why at the moment they were the right choice. i WANT to be proven wrong, to learn from my mistakes, to improve and become better.

    Did i say you gtfo and get good? NO. QUOTE.
    Did i say your opinion does not matter? NO. QUOTE.
    Did i say you are shit? NO. QUOTE.

    I said you have an opinion that is affected in a negative way by personal experience and therefore is probably wrong, since a lot of evidence that go against it have been laid out. I then proceed to try and find out if this is trully the case. I do find evidence supporting it. And instead of belittling you or whatever i offer you arvice, i point out how you can actually enjoy the spec more AND understand it. I ASK YOU to remain in the thread to discuss and together with others develop our gameplay. There can be no progress and no learning without trial and error. I do not mock your gameplay. I mock and despise your weak heart that runs away, and worst of all can affect others into acting in a similar way. Sups was rude as fuck, and some other guys too. MEnd is just tired, and so am i. And still we do not deserve to be accussed of elitism in any way.
    Last edited by Popokolara; 2017-02-13 at 04:39 PM.

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Desmonda View Post
    Bull. Your claim that no one understands the spec is nonsense. What is there to understand? I saw your YouTube video "explaining" the spec to raid leaders. It is for that very reason the spec is garbage, it shouldn't need a video to explain it. There's no mystery to the spec. It's the only healing spec dependent on raid coordination, innervates and weak auras. What am I missing? Nothing. The spec is simply too niche and limited, players want freedom. And apparently according to you if one doesn't play the spec in way that you believe it to be played they have no right to make suggestions and anything they say is invalid. So this leaves me with one question: why are you in this discussion?
    1.) I never said no one understands the spec. I'm not sure if your reading comprehension is that bad but I clearly didn't state this.

    2.) I'm glad you watched my video, hopefully you learned something.

    3.) Suggestions are fine, but you've done nothing other than call people elitist and argue in this thread. I have yet to see a substantive post from you in this entire thread.

    If you're here to pick fights, I'll not pleasure you with one. If you have actual opinions or suggestions, I'll explain why they are good or bad (unless it's elitist for me to have an opinion?).

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