Trump's immigration ban denied

[Deleted]

What choice does he have? People take all and every action he does and twists and demonize them. Would they demonize Obama, who did the same?

Act as a world leader and stop deflecting his decisions?

[Skroe]

Apparently you get an infraction for saying Sharia Law is evil. I don't know what's going on in the world (or here) anymore.

I really was hating what Trump was doing, but maybe it's necessary. Maybe that's what it takes to combat evil.

Islam is not evil. And the person in question said, quite clearly "Fuck Islam", among other things in his diatribe.

[rogueMatthias]

It bans predominantly Muslims from 7 Middle Eastern countries, but obviously there are some non-Muslim people in the countries. But to paint the picture that the ban has nothing to do with Muslims is just as disingenuous.. it's not like he banned Yemen and Australia and France and South Korea.

Even knowing and acknowledging that it isn't just a Muslim ban, I intuitively find it accurate enough to call it a Muslim ban. Obviously he wasn't trying to ban the Christians.

At some point it's just a semantic e-peen fest.

Actually, considering it effects EVERYONE in those countries, regardless of religion, and considering it is only a TINY FRACTION of the worlds Muslim population that's actually effected by it, I think it's intellectually dishonest to refer to it as a "Muslim ban". It clearly isn't, and that term's used only for provocation and headlines.

I'm not even arguing a case for or against the executive order (personally I think it's reactionary, unnecessary and disruptive to too many peoples lives) I'm just saying that calling it a "Muslim Ban" is factually wrong, and just a way to kill any opposition or discussion by making it "racists vs non-racists" again; the go-to of EVERY liberal debate these days.

[Crissi]

Moderation talks are to be directed at a global, not discussed on the forum.

[Draco-Onis]

Muslims from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia aren't not banned. Are they not Muslim enough or something?

Trump doesn't have business with them.

A ban on Muslims would obviously include those countries, but it doesn't, therefore it is NOT a ban on Muslims.

Trump called for a Muslim ban several times, his people are saying he asked for a Muslim ban, he has said Christians will get special treatment yet you keep denying what is right in front of you. I give up I would think you Trumpist would be proud that your lord and master is delivering on yet another promise.

[drakensoul]

Actually, considering it effects EVERYONE in those countries, regardless of religion, and considering it is only a TINY FRACTION of the worlds Muslim population that's actually effected by it, I think it's intellectually dishonest to refer to it as a "Muslim ban". It clearly isn't, and that term's used only for provocation and headlines.

I'm not even arguing a case for or against the executive order (personally I think it's reactionary, unnecessary and disruptive to too many peoples lives) I'm just saying that calling it a "Muslim Ban" is factually wrong, and just a way to kill any opposition or discussion by making it "racists vs non-racists" again; the go-to of EVERY liberal debate these days.

I guess it depends on how you want to focus your pragmatism.

If 99% of the people affected are Muslim, and they are, then it's intellectually valid to say "This targets Muslims." And if 99% of every new person added to the ban is again a Muslim, it stays valid to say "This is targeting Muslims." The fact that there are other Muslims that haven't yet been added to it doesn't negate the fact that virtually everyone affected is a Muslim.

Just like if you have a law banning gay marriage in the USA it is intellectually valid to say "This targets gays." It may not target every gay person on the planet, but it is targeting gays.

If I start murdering purple bunnies you would say "He's targeting purple bunnies." You wouldn't say "No he's not, some purple bunnies are still alive!" Because that would be ludicrous.

To then call it a Muslim ban wouldn't be inaccurate. But no, it doesn't target every Muslim on the planet. Might he if he had the ability to do that? Perhaps. But that's irrelevant to calling it a Muslim ban.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

Act as a world leader and stop deflecting his decisions?

Your group doesn't give him that opportunity. They jump on him at every turn, good and bad decisions alike.

If he defends them on his own basis, then it simply flies above people's head. When he use authority figures that people liked, he get called as being unable to stand on his own.

It's not that he can't, it's that your group won't let him. The decisions were already clear before Obama was put in the discussion. It was the media's and the irrational anti-Trump group that simply decided to put on a blindfold and attack.

[Spunt]

Trump doesn't have business with them.


Trump called for a Muslim ban several times, his people are saying he asked for a Muslim ban, he has said Christians will get special treatment yet you keep denying what is right in front of you. I give up I would think you Trump cultist would be proud that your lord and master is delivering on yet another promise.

If it is supposed to be a Muslim ban, then why doesn't it include the top 5 largest Muslim countries? I'm having trouble understanding this level of stupid.

[rogueMatthias]

But no, it doesn't target every Muslim on the planet. Might he if he had the ability to do that? Perhaps.

Or perhaps not. It's a good job we don't base our opinions of these issues on blind conjecture.

[Draco-Onis]

If it is supposed to be a Muslim ban, then why doesn't it include the top 5 largest Muslim countries? I'm having trouble understanding this level of stupid.

Either you can't read or you insist on denying reality I have already answered that, as I said before I give up be sure to follow Trump's twitter feed for the rest of your instructions.

[Sky High]

Apparently you get an infraction for saying Sharia Law is evil. I don't know what's going on in the world (or here) anymore.

did you even read his post? in what realm do you think that's even close to being constructive?

[Deleted]

Your group doesn't give him that opportunity.

My group? I don't have a group.

He needs to stick to his own decisions, good or bad, and explain why he took it. And be open to change when they are bad. I ask this of all elected leaders.

[Spunt]

Either you can't read or you insist on denying reality I have already answered that, as I said before I give up be sure to follow Trump's twitter feed for the rest of your instructions.

Any time you want to come back with actual facts to support your argument, you're welcome to engage.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/u...der-trump.html

Here is the order. Please point to the exact section where it specifically bans "muslims". I'll wait.

[drakensoul]

Apparently you get an infraction for saying Sharia Law is evil. I don't know what's going on in the world (or here) anymore.

I really was hating what Trump was doing, but maybe it's necessary. Maybe that's what it takes to combat evil.

Well you just said Sharia Law is evil and didn't get infracted. This should lead you to conclude that the infraction was for something else. Whether you choose to acknowledge that or be intentionally blind is up to you.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

My group? I don't have a group.

He needs to stick to his own decisions, good or bad, and explain why he took it. And be open to change when they are bad. I ask this of all elected leaders.

That is a fair claim, but if that is the case, then you should be satisfied with the already handed reasons, as they were valid on their own. Perhaps disagree, but understand why they were put in place.

Admittedly, I do not know your position on the matter. That's on me.

[schwarzkopf]

It's sad when the current POTUS has to defend himself by deflecting with "but the former president also did!".

Especially when the previous president just stopped visas being issues.

The issue here is that he is stopping entry to valid active visas, green cards, permanent residents, and to some citizens of ALL countries including the US.

Bit by bit this complete cesspool of a executive order is being whittled away - apparently 'permanent residency' will be a positive factor in their vetting at the air port.

Hear that - a positive factor.

Not only is Trump dong the WRONG thing, he is doing it incompetently .. but that's to be expected for an obviously mentally ill man.

Talking about LEGAL people here.

[Zeth Hawkins]

Bit by bit this complete cesspool of a executive order is being whittled away - apparently 'permanent residency' will be a positive factor in their vetting at the air port.

Hear that - a positive factor.

This sounds reasonable. Resident or not, should somebody be let in if an investigation shows them to be a threat to the well-being of others?

[CostinR]

Sadly for you, you are wrong.

https://www.cato.org/publications/co...on-ban-illegal

If I'm wrong the courts will rule against him, but they haven't.

What the courts merely said is he can't just kick out people already on US soil.

[May90]

https://www.facebook.com/DonaldTrump...58567643610725

It's sad when the truth comes from Trump's mouth.

He-he, "the truth"...

You know that, when someone starts with "America is a proud nation of immigrants and we will continue to show compassion to those fleeing oppression, but", this isn't going to end well.

[Stacyrect]

It bans predominantly Muslims from 7 Middle Eastern countries, but obviously there are some non-Muslim people in the countries. But to paint the picture that the ban has nothing to do with Muslims is just as disingenuous.. it's not like he banned Yemen and Australia and France and South Korea.

Even knowing and acknowledging that it isn't just a Muslim ban, I intuitively find it accurate enough to call it a Muslim ban. Obviously he wasn't trying to ban the Christians.

At some point it's just a semantic e-peen fest.

But either way, someone did say it was "just Muslims" so I'll give you a point.

It is not a muslim ban. Nowhere in the EO does it say Muslim, Islam, or Islamist. Their is no ban on Indonesia, Pakistan, India, or other countries where their are significantly higher populations of muslims then the countries effected.

It is a temporary suspension of immigration.

Individuals deemed to be of national interest and religious minorities who are facing persecution are exempt. This includes Sufi's, Alawites, and Ahmadiyya muslims who are massacred by Sunni's, Shia's, and ISIS. These countries were not hand picked by Trump at the drop of a hat, they were in large picked by DHS a few years ago under the Obama admin with the latter being chosen by up to date intelligence.