Not to be that guy but..[Ret gripe]

[Deleted]

STOP. FUCKING. LINKING. LOGS. WITH. SO. LITTLE. FUCKING. DATA. DAMN.

Survival Hunter at the top with 4 parses - WOW THEY MUST BE SO GUD
Frost Mage 33 parses
Sub Rogue 32 parses

MUCH DATA WOW RET TRASH WOW


Why people can't fucking understand that most better guilds have private logs, and the data we have is totally worthless and only spread misinformation. We have to wait until we will have few hundred kills on each boss.

Also,
"ret worst dps single target"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH

CAN'T. STOP. LAUGHING. XD

Like, seriously. Top guilds are bringing ret to the most brutal single target dps race boss (Star Augur) but our ST is bad. Good Joke Bro.



Most of the Nighthold fights are aoe

You are beeing ridiculous.

Cross the survival off the list if you want, it changes NOTHING!

The unbalance of the retribution passive from heroic to mythic is STILL THERE. Will you just shut up and listen? The RET PASSIVE IS UNBALANCED. You have no evidence towards the contrary and we are showing evidence towards it.

Top Ret's are brought because of wisdom. If you knew anything you'd know that.

Single target needs help and Ret passive needs to go. That is all. It not because of survival, its not because of shadow priests its because of Ret.

Now get your head out of your rear end and realise that.

[Deleted]

Ret passive is supposed to be irrelevant to our tuning. If they tune our damage around a passive that pops up everytime rets are in a party with lfr heroes or normal/heroic pug instead of taking into account mythic encounters where if the passive pops for more than 4 times then most probably it is a wipe then I cannot point to the obvious more.
If they keep taking into account logs and tune us around that passive then they should simply remove it or maybe get it accumulated into some dead talent (holy lolwrath would be ideal) and get us some passive that would definitely not require that much management during a raid/pvp tier.

[Morally Grey Storm]

so... middle of the line...? cool?

No.

These are ten characters alright.

[Ripster42]

No.

These are ten characters alright.

/2Char

[Deleted]

Was tryng to find a way to filter logs without ret passive proccs ( or deaths if u prefer to see how much it really affects and couldn't find a decent way. Any ideas?

[dnicks17]

Was tryng to find a way to filter logs without ret passive proccs ( or deaths if u prefer to see how much it really affects and couldn't find a decent way. Any ideas?

Exclude the ability "183436" in the search filter.

[Emerald Archer]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...y=4&dataset=90

They're fine. Look at how balanced that is, aside from unholy which just got a buff.

Right now, the specs are really really well balanced.

[Goldenboy1]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...y=4&dataset=90

They're fine. Look at how balanced that is, aside from unholy which just got a buff.

Right now, the specs are really really well balanced.

In heroic maybe. However, if you look at mythic its not really balanced and alot of specs fall off for various reasons. You cant simply say "hey in this specific mode the specs seem balanced so they are balanced"

[Emerald Archer]

In heroic maybe. However, if you look at mythic its not really balanced and alot of specs fall off for various reasons. You cant simply say "hey in this specific mode the specs seem balanced so they are balanced"

Think about it for a second before saying that heroic doesn't count.

Mythic fights, there are VERY few logs for rets 2 best fights, Elisande/Gul'dan. Making mythic logs INACCURATE. Meaning they don't mean anything.

Why is it that heroic logs don't count? Because it doesn't suit your argument? We're looking at 90th percentiles here, these are good players.

Mythic logs are an inaccurate source of information for this, only used by people who are looking for things to prove they're right. Despite it missing the most important/best ret fights.

[dnicks17]

Think about it for a second before saying that heroic doesn't count.

Mythic fights, there are VERY few logs for rets 2 best fights, Elisande/Gul'dan. Making mythic logs INACCURATE. Meaning they don't mean anything.

Why is it that heroic logs don't count? Because it doesn't suit your argument? We're looking at 90th percentiles here, these are good players.

Mythic logs are an inaccurate source of information for this, only used by people who are looking for things to prove they're right. Despite it missing the most important/best ret fights.

Because classes are tuned around mythic...

[Goldenboy1]

Think about it for a second before saying that heroic doesn't count.

Mythic fights, there are VERY few logs for rets 2 best fights, Elisande/Gul'dan. Making mythic logs INACCURATE. Meaning they don't mean anything.

Why is it that heroic logs don't count? Because it doesn't suit your argument? We're looking at 90th percentiles here, these are good players.

Mythic logs are an inaccurate source of information for this, only used by people who are looking for things to prove they're right. Despite it missing the most important/best ret fights.

Balancing is in the long run, I was merely stating its still hard to determine balanced based of heroic. In the heroic level you get a huge amount of players because of this there is more data however what we really want is to compare the top players at about equal skill level. Because of gearing it is not necessarily proportional to data from the heroic level. Heroic logs do matter however, it is only one mode if you really want to throw this argument at me then why not normal as well? The simple answer it is inflated. Mythic raiders in Heroic scenarios inflate the numbers however a Mythic raider in Mythic is representative data. Instead of immediately going on a Crusade towards someone with a dissenting opinion you should take a step back and form an analysis of their point before responding.

[Emerald Archer]

Balancing is in the long run, I was merely stating its still hard to determine balanced based of heroic. In the heroic level you get a huge amount of players because of this there is more data however what we really want is to compare the top players at about equal skill level. Because of gearing it is not necessarily proportional to data from the heroic level. Heroic logs do matter however, it is only one mode if you really want to throw this argument at me then why not normal as well? The simple answer it is inflated. Mythic raiders in Heroic scenarios inflate the numbers however a Mythic raider in Mythic is representative data. Instead of immediately going on a Crusade towards someone with a dissenting opinion you should take a step back and form an analysis of their point before responding.

All specs are inflated though, you can't say "Oh ours is inflated so you cant' compare it" everyones is like that.

At the end of the day, all we know is that Ret pallys are highly desired in raids. And do competitive dps. That's the information we have.

People need to stop linking mythic logs, if heroic logs mean little, mythic means nothing. Because it's incomplete with too small a sample size.

Ret pallys, do good damage, and have some of the best utility. That's what matters. Heroic logs are the most accurate logs we have right now, so that's what needs to be used. Until there's more accurate logs, that's what the information is.

[Goldenboy1]

All specs are inflated though, you can't say "Oh ours is inflated so you cant' compare it" everyones is like that.

At the end of the day, all we know is that Ret pallys are highly desired in raids. And do competitive dps. That's the information we have.

People need to stop linking mythic logs, if heroic logs mean little, mythic means nothing. Because it's incomplete with too small a sample size.

Ret pallys, do good damage, and have some of the best utility. That's what matters. Heroic logs are the most accurate logs we have right now, so that's what needs to be used. Until there's more accurate logs, that's what the information is.

I did not reference Retribution specifically, quite a few specs are falling off at the mythic level. And data from heroic is not representative of good players at this point in time because Mythic has been out for quite a while now with thousands of parses.

Ret is highly desired but it isnt necessarily because we do good damage, it is because of our wisdom buff.

Mythic means alot, this is the difficulty that the classes are designed around in terms of balancing. Heroic means something as well for semi hardcore players however, mythic raiders do not care what is happening in heroic and during their alt or ap runs then they have fights of a couple of minutes which throws Heroic logs all over the place. Its simply not representative of the population of raiders at this point in time.

Ret pallys do decent enough damage however we are not being taken because of this, it is because of our mana regeneration blessing. Otherwise guilds would much rather have a demon hunter with higher damage. Our utility is not "some of the best" we have one snare removal on a cool down and a physical protection spell. Compare this to Frost Dks, who are doing more damage currently, they have a Brez which is more valuable than a simple snare removal. Or warriors, also doing more damage, who have a 10% health buff cooldown. The current logs are accurate, youre acting like mythic was released last night.

[Emerald Archer]

I did not reference Retribution specifically, quite a few specs are falling off at the mythic level. And data from heroic is not representative of good players at this point in time because Mythic has been out for quite a while now with thousands of parses.

Ret is highly desired but it isnt necessarily because we do good damage, it is because of our wisdom buff.

Mythic means alot, this is the difficulty that the classes are designed around in terms of balancing. Heroic means something as well for semi hardcore players however, mythic raiders do not care what is happening in heroic and during their alt or ap runs then they have fights of a couple of minutes which throws Heroic logs all over the place. Its simply not representative of the population of raiders at this point in time.

Ret pallys do decent enough damage however we are not being taken because of this, it is because of our mana regeneration blessing. Otherwise guilds would much rather have a demon hunter with higher damage. Our utility is not "some of the best" we have one snare removal on a cool down and a physical protection spell. Compare this to Frost Dks, who are doing more damage currently, they have a Brez which is more valuable than a simple snare removal. Or warriors, also doing more damage, who have a 10% health buff cooldown. The current logs are accurate, youre acting like mythic was released last night.

Mythic parses are out on some bosses, aside from the first 3, none have enough parses to be accurate especially the last 3 bosses. Again, making it much more inaccurate than heroic. And if you look at 90th-95th percentiles on heroic, you are getting good players, mostly mythic players.

Mythic logs literally can't be used, because they do not have enough parses on the bosses, the last 3 bosses have barely any. How is that so hard to understand.

Heroic logs have good players, excellent players in the logs. Because top raiders still do heroic. Mythic raiders DO care what dps they do in heroic fights. Please. That's a joke saying that they don't. They either want the bosses dead asap to go to other stuff, want to beat their teammates, or want to parse. Are you even a mythic raider? At worst the fast kills would skew a few classes dps totals, like DH etc. Not really pallys.

Wisdom is also a utility ability, that and bop = you have the best utility in game.

Also.. brez a utility ability? lol.. so many classes have that now, that honestly it really doesn't count for anything in mythic raids.

Alright mate, lets look at this, Mythic Gul'dan parses, 6 assassins, 4 shadow, and everyone else, 3 or under. You're trying to tell me that's an accurate pool of players?

Elisande, not one spec over 20. Majority under 10.

Star Augur, 1 over 100, majority under 50.

This is not accurate information, when people look at the total damage breakdown for the raid, and think it's accurate. It is NOT. Because these are not enough parses to be accurate, this is a total of 30% of the fights/dps completely inaccurate. That changes everything.

[Morally Grey Storm]

heroic Skorpyron has more than 300k dps gaps between #1 dps and Rets.
Our AoE is strong, though, or so I've been told.

[Goldenboy1]

Are you even a mythic raider?

Yes and in Heroic I have parses in the top 200 World and 100 US. And everything you said can be simply negated by my previous "balance in the long run" statement. There is no reason to have Retribution besides their Wisdom buff. Also, all of my posts have been a general statement on many classes not just Retribution. The classes are not as "really really balanced" as you were suggesting. Im not really sure why you felt the need to make a huge argument about it and even suggested things about me, the level of which I raid. Do not expect me to come back to reply. I only stated that the classes were not as balanced as you believed and I was not looking for such a childish argument.

[Emerald Archer]

Yes and in Heroic I have parses in the top 200 World and 100 US. And everything you said can be simply negated by my previous "balance in the long run" statement. There is no reason to have Retribution besides their Wisdom buff. Also, all of my posts have been a general statement on many classes not just Retribution. The classes are not as "really really balanced" as you were suggesting. Im not really sure why you felt the need to make a huge argument about it and even suggested things about me, the level of which I raid. Do not expect me to come back to reply. I only stated that the classes were not as balanced as you believed and I was not looking for such a childish argument.

http://www.method.gg/undisputed-t19-...rsus-interview as a source, but

"Alveona: To be honest it’s one of the most balanced patches I’ve ever seen. Almost all classes and specs are playable and doing some decent dps numbers. Of course some classes were performing a bit better than others (shadow priests, assassination rogues, fury warriors, havoc demon hunters), but not even close to the previous state of shadow priests with STM."

But nah man, what would someone from Exorsus know.

[Neldarie]

Well considering he forgot about the "best" class in there (frost dk) who knows?!
I agree tho it looks overall very balanced. I'm just not satisfied with pure patchwerk ST nor the passive bias rng of top %ile parses with Retribution passive bullshit.

[Emerald Archer]

"best"

"Best" is right, is isn't the best. Sure on pure dps in an overall sense. Yes. But that doesn't make it the best dps spec in game/for raiding/for prog.

[Neldarie]

"Best" is right, is isn't the best. Sure on pure dps in an overall sense. Yes. But that doesn't make it the best dps spec in game/for raiding/for prog.

Keep telling yourself that.