Japan: No refugees, we must look after our own citizens first.

[Deleted]

They admit to be in a huge crisis that makes this very bland human action not viable? They better realize who consumes their culture and technology before they realize why they can still have 13hr/day with that income. And yes this is already inhuman and they should get together with the globe to not have these suicide rates.

"han - you are all zombies".

[Nirya]

Got a source?

As I don't bookmark these things when I've seen them discussed on this forum, no. It's been discussed heavily on these forums though.

[Darsithis]

Some? You underestimate how many want to go back. The people who want to go back once the war is over is residing in neighbouring countries, countries that are closer. The people who go to the more far away nations are not the kind of people who want to go back. They're going to do everything they can to stay.

How many of the vietnamese refugees have gone back to vietnam from the US? Not that many. Seems to be a permanent relocation and not temporary. I assume the same will hold true for other groups that went to countries that are half the world away.

How is that a bad thing? America, for instance, was built on people fleeing their home countries.

from a war zone......how much property and capital do you think they have to their name?

Some, plenty. Most, not a lot, but they bring themselves and their two hands. They don't have to come into the country carrying bags of gold to be worth caring about.

You can help people without bringing them to your home country, yes?

Depends on what you're helping them with. Aid for natural disasters? Medicine and education for poor countries? Sure. War-torn areas, not so much.

[prwraith]

They can easily take a few thousand.

They probably could take them. But there are other things to consider outside population density. Ie. Germany is easy to get too, with abundant readily available resources. Japan is a mountain country. most of their land is uninhabitable. Resources aren't as easy to deliver, and it's not nearly as easy to get to.

Logistically it doesn't really make sense combined with the cultural impact.

[The Mayor]

fuck refugees

Indeed. Japan made the right choice.

[Draco-Onis]

Fixing the unhealthy work ethics would go a long way. I used to get people taunting me for not staying what they think is long enough in office.

I agree but some things seem to be too entrenched into Japanese society to reverse.

[Nirya]

How is that a bad thing? America, for instance, was built on people fleeing their home countries.

I don't think you can really compare America to longstanding territories though.

[Macaquerie]

They probably could take them. But there are other things to consider outside population density. Ie. Germany is easy to get too, with abundant readily available resources. Japan is a mountain country. most of their land is uninhabitable. Resources aren't as easy to deliver, and it's not nearly as easy to get to.

Logistically it doesn't really make sense combined with the cultural impact.

Realistically speaking, few Middle Easterners would actually choose to go to Japan when Europe is both easier to get to and more accepting of them, in relative terms at least. I imagine Japan's draconian refugee policy is more to try and keep out potential migrants from China and SE Asia who would probably be more comfortable in the Japanese cultural milieu, though I imagine few Japanese would be equally comfortable having them around.

[Deleted]

As I don't bookmark these things when I've seen them discussed on this forum, no. It's been discussed heavily on these forums though.

And every time it has been discussed, no-one brought solid data or proper sources that were not bi-ased.

You would have this basic understanding, with minimal amount of time on OT's discussions.

[Macaquerie]

I don't think you can really compare America to longstanding territories though.

In practical terms, the USA is a much older and more established society than Japan. Our government, institutions, and basic culture and values have remained largely unchanged since 1776. Those of Japan, on the other hand, have been entirely rebuilt from the ground up TWICE in that time. Modern Japan with its Westernized consumer culture and industrial economy (built on the back of American investment) has only a superficial connection to the samurai and kabuki culture of the past.

[Nirya]

So, no you don't have a source and you're talking out of your ass. Got it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigr...d_crime#Europe

Denmark

Male Lebanese immigrants and their descendants, a big part of them being of Palestinian descent,[50] have, at 257, the highest crime-index among the studied groups, which translates to crime rates 150% higher than the country's average. The index is standardized by both age and socioeconomic status. Men of Yugoslav origin and men originating in Turkey, Pakistan, Somalia and Morocco are associated with high crime-indexes, ranging between 187 and 205, which translate to crime rates about double the country's average. The lowest crime index is recorded among immigrants and descendants originating from the United States. Their crime-index, at 32, is far below the average for all men in Denmark.[50] Among immigrants from China a very small crime-index is recorded as well, at 38.

A 2014 study of the random dispersal of refugee immigrants over the period 1986-1998, and focusing on the immigrant children who underwent this random assignment before the age of 15, suggests that exposure to neighbourhood crime increases individual crime propensity.[25] The share of convicted criminals living in the assignment neighborhood at assignment affects later crime convictions of males, but not of females, who were assigned to these neighborhoods as children.[25] The authors "find that a one standard deviation increase in the share of youth criminals living in the assignment neighborhood, and who committed a crime in the assignment year, increases the probability of a conviction for male assignees by between 5 percent and 9 percent later in life (when they are between 15 and 21 years old)."[25]

Finland

A 2015 study found that immigrant youth had higher incidence rates in 14 out 17 delinquent acts. The gap is small for thefts and vandalism, and no significant differences for shoplifting, bullying and use of intoxicants. According to the authors, "weak parental social control and risk routines, such as staying out late, appear to partly explain the immigrant youths’ higher delinquency", and "the relevance of socioeconomic factors was modest".[51]

According to the American Bureau of Diplomatic Security, Estonians and Romanians were the two largest group of foreigners in Finnish prisons.[52]

According to 2014 official statistics, 24% of rapes are estimated to have been committed by individuals with foreign surnames in Finland.[53] For some context, foreign-language speakers and the foreign-born comprised roughly 6% of the Finnish population in 2014, meaning that the percentage of individuals with foreign surnames in Finland is at very least 6%.[54][55] Additionally, Finnish rapists are more likely to be known personally by the victim, increasing the threshold to report[need quotation to verify][original research?]. Furthermore, there are great asymmetries between nationalities of rapists: while in 1998 there were no rapists hailing from Vietnam or China, there were many from other countries; 10 times more "foreign-looking" men were accused of rape than the overall percentage of foreigners in Finland.[56]

Netherlands

Non-native Dutch youths, especially young Antillean and Surinamese Rotterdammers, commit more crimes than the average. More than half of Moroccan-Dutch male youths aged 18 to 24 years in Rotterdam have ever been investigated by the police, as compared to close to a quarter of native male youths. Eighteen percent of foreign-born young people aged from 18 to 24 have been investigated for crimes.[75][76]

According to a 2009 report commissioned by Justice Minister Ernst Hirsch Ballin, 63% of the 447 teenagers convicted of serious crime are children of parents born outside the Netherlands. All these cases concern crime for which the maximum jail sentence is longer than eight years, such as robbery with violence, extortion, arson, public acts of violence, sexual assault, manslaughter and murder. The ethnic composition of the perpetrators was: native Dutch - 37%; Moroccans - 14%; Unknown origin - 14%; "other non-Westerners" - 9%; Turkish - 8%; Surinamese - 7%; Antillean - 7%; and "other Westerners" - 4%.[77] In the majority of cases, the judges did not consider the serious offences to be grave enough to necessitate an unconditional jail sentence.[77]

Analysis of police data for 2002 by ethnicity showed that 37.5 percent of all crime suspects living in the Netherlands were of foreign origin (including those of the second generation), almost twice as high as the share of immigrants in the Dutch population. The highest rates per capita were found among first and second generation male migrants of a non‐Western background. Of native male youths between the ages of 18 and 24, in 2002 2.2% were arrested, of all immigrant males of the same age 4.4%, of second generation non-Western males 6.4%. The crime rates for so‐called ‘Western migrants’ were very close to those of the native Dutch. In all groups, the rates for women were considerably lower than for men, lower than one percent, with the highest found among second generation non‐western migrants, 0.9% (Blom et al. 2005: 31).[78]

For Moroccan immigrants, whether they originate from the underdeveloped parts of Morocco has a modest impact on their crime rate. One study finds that "crime rates in the Netherlands are higher among Moroccans who come from the countryside and the Rif, or whose parents do, than among those who come from the urban provinces in Morocco and from outside the Rif, or whose parents do."[79]

Norway

A 2011 report by Statistics Norway found that immigrants are overrepresented in crime statistics but that there is substantial variation by country of origin.[80] The report furthermore found that "the overrepresentation is substantially reduced when adjusting for population structure – for some groups as much as 45 per cent, but there are also some groups where the overrepresentation still is large."[80] According to the report, the data for 2009 shows that first-generation immigrants from Africa were three times more likely than ethnic Norwegians (or rather individuals who are neither first- nor second-generation immigrants) to be convicted of a felony while Somali immigrants in particular being 4.4 times more likely to be convicted of a felony than an ethnic Norwegian was. Similarly, Iraqis and Pakistanis were found to have rates of conviction for felonies greater than ethnic Norwegians by a factor of 3 and 2.6 respectively. Another finding was that second-generation African and Asian immigrants had a higher rate of convictions for felonies than first-generation immigrants. While first-generation African immigrants had conviction rates for felonies of 16.7 per 1,000 individuals over the age of 15, for second-generation immigrants the rate was 28 per 1,000 – an increase of over 60%. And for Asian immigrants an increase from 9.3 per 1,000 to 17.1 per 1,000 was observed. In 2010 13% of sexual crimes charges were filed against first generation immigrants who make up 7.8% of the population – a rate of overrepresentaion of 1.7. Unfortunately, no data is available on sexual crime that is broken down by ethnic background.[80]

In 2010, a spokesperson for the Oslo Police Department stated that every case of assault rapes in Oslo in the years 2007, 2008 and 2009 was committed by a non-Western immigrant.[81] When only perpetrators in the solved cases were counted, it was found that four of the victims in the 16 unsolved cases described the perpetrator as being of White (not necessarily Norwegian) ethnicity.[82]

A 2011 report by the Oslo Police District shows that of the 131 individuals charged with the 152 rapes in which the perpetrator could be identified, 45.8% were of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin while 54.2% were of Norwegian, other European or American origin. In the cases of "assault rape", i.e. rape aggravated by physical violence, a category that included 6 of the 152 cases and 5 of the 131 identified individuals, the 5 identified individuals were of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin. In the cases of assault rape where the individual responsible was not identified and the police relied on the description provided by the victim, 8 of the perpetrators were of African/dark-skinned appearance, 4 were Western/light/Nordic and 4 had an Asian appearance.[83]

Sweden

The 2005 report by the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention studying 4.4 million Swedes between the ages of 15 and 51 during the period 1997-2001 found that 58.9% of crime suspects were born to two Swedish parents (74.5% of total population), 10.4% of those born to one Swedish parent (9.3% of total population), 5.2% of those born to two foreign parents (3.2% of total population), and 25% of foreign-born individuals (13.1% of total population).[89] The report found that male immigrants were four times more likely to be investigated for lethal violence and robbery than ethnic Swedes. In addition, male immigrants were three times more likely to be investigated for violent assault, and five times more likely to be investigated for sex crimes.[89] Immigrants from Africa and Southern and Western Asian were more likely to be charged of a crime than individuals born to two Swedish parents by a factor of 4.5 and 3.5 respectively.[89] The report is based on statistics for those "suspected" of offences, but Stina Holmberg of the Council for Crime Prevention said that there was "little difference" in the statistics for those suspected of crimes and those actually convicted. "Slightly under 60 percent of the almost 1,520,000 offences... registered during the period covered by the study can be attributed to persons who were born in Sweden to two Swedish-born parents," it said.[90] A 2006 government report however suggests that immigrants face discrimination by law enforcement, which could lead to meaningful differences between those suspected of crimes and those actually convicted.[91] A 2008 report by the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention finds evidence of discrimination towards individuals of foreign descent in the Swedish judicial system.[26] The 2005 report finds that immigrants who entered Sweden during early childhood have lower crime rates than other immigrants.[92] By taking account of socioeconomic factors (gender, age, education and income), the crime rate gap between immigrants and natives decreases.[92]

A 1996 report by the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention determined that between 1985 and 1989 individuals born in Iraq, North Africa (Algeria, Libya, Morocco and Tunisia),Africa (excluding Uganda and the North African countries), other Middle East (Jordan, Palestine, Syria), Iran and Eastern Europe (Romania, Bulgaria) were convicted of rape at rates 20, 23, 17, 9, 10 and 18 greater than individuals born in Sweden respectively.[93] Both the 1996 and 2005 reports have been criticized for using insufficient controls for socioeconomic factors.[12]

A 2013 study found that both first- and second-generation immigrants have a higher rate of suspected offences than indigenous Swedes.[94] While first-generation immigrants have the highest offender rate, the offenders have the lowest average number of offenses, which indicates that there is a high rate of low-rate offending (many suspected offenders with only one single registered offense). The rate of chronic offending (offenders suspected of several offenses) is higher among indigenous Swedes than first-generation immigrants. Second-generation immigrants have higher rates of chronic offending than first-generation immigrants but lower total offender rates.[94]

A study using more comprehensive socioeconomic factors than the 1996 and 2005 reports found that "for males, we are able to explain between half and three-quarters of the gap in crime by reference to parental socio-economic resources and neighbourhood segregation. For females, we can explain even more, sometimes the entire gap."[12] The authors furthermore found "that culture is unlikely to be a strong cause of crime among immigrants".[12]

[Rucati]

This really shouldn't be a surprise in any way to anyone who knows anything about Japan and their culture. They aren't exactly known for liking outsiders. On top of that they have a ton of customs and cultural things that they do that refugees wouldn't understand. On top of that being an island kind of on their own, and unlike the US they have no real history with refugees, it doesn't make any sense for them to accept refugees.

[Nirya]

And every time it has been discussed, no-one brought solid data or proper sources that were not bi-ased.

You would have this basic understanding, with minimal amount of time on OT's discussions.

Is the data and sources here biased?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigr...d_crime#Europe

[NED funded]

I don't really care to be humanitarian when it costs that much. I don't think countries should be sending aid either, at least not from tax payers money. If someone wants to help then they should help with their own money, not the tax payers.

I mean Japan already sent 1.5 billion in aid. I don't see the costs of taking refugees ever reaching that much.

[Nirya]

In practical terms, the USA is a much older and more established society than Japan. Our government, institutions, and basic culture and values have remained largely unchanged since 1776. Those of Japan, on the other hand, have been entirely rebuilt from the ground up TWICE in that time. Modern Japan with its Westernized consumer culture and industrial economy (built on the back of American investment) has only a superficial connection to the samurai and kabuki culture of the past.

It's more that America was founded by immigrants and immigration is what brought people to the country unlike Japan, which has been a territory where the people have lived for a long time with very little immigration to speak of compared to USA.

- - - Updated - - -

I mean Japan already sent 1.5 billion in aid. I don't see the costs of taking refugees ever reaching that much.

So because Japan sends aid it means we should also add additional costs to it? That's not particularly logical.

[NED funded]

It's more that America was founded by immigrants and immigration is what brought people to the country unlike Japan, which has been a territory where the people have lived for a long time with very little immigration to speak of compared to USA.

- - - Updated - - -



So because Japan sends aid it means we should also add additional costs to it? That's not particularly logical.

What I'm saying is that you cannot complain of the costs when the country could give and gave 1.5 billion for humanitarian aid.

[Nirya]

What I'm saying is that you cannot complain of the costs when the country could give and gave 1.5 billion for humanitarian aid.

Of course I can complain about the costs.

[Zandalariprelate]

Of course I can complain about the costs.

No you can't because you dont even live there

[WoWGoneBad]

I will say this on the subject......

When you fill a balloon with air beyond its capacity, what happens..... it POPS!

America is the balloon that has been inflating itself with people for the past 200+ years. We are already at a point where we are over inflated and cannot support the
air(people) we already have in the country. We have MILLIONS homeless, Millions Unemployed(yes the number is at an all time low but still MILLIONS) We have THOUSANDS of Veterans who are NOT getting the help they need. MILLIONS of Illegal Aliens who we also have to support........

How much more are we going to take in before we POP. When we do pop..... it will be in a VERY violent fashion and many will be hurt or dead in the process.......

I am not saying to halt ALL immigration and refugees into the country.... but we need to get our OWN house under control before we bring in more. How can we feed others when we cannot even feed ourselves..........

[Macaquerie]

It's more that America was founded by immigrants and immigration is what brought people to the country unlike Japan, which has been a territory where the people have lived for a long time with very little immigration to speak of compared to USA.

How is that an argument in Japan's favor? America was an economic and industrial superpower long before anybody paid any attention to Japan, and we will be still be a relevant force in the world long after Japan fades into irrelevance, and one of the primary reasons for that is immigration.