DPS Meters in GW2

[Gray_Matter]

It would appear that DPS meters are now legal in GW2 with a number of restrictions:

I found these linked in a reddit thread:

We have no problems with players using a 3rd party tool whose scope is only to collect and visualize combat data gathered directly from the game client. Anything beyond that scope is still considered a violation of the User Agreement.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/...thing/ddi7kta/

You are correct (that memory reading DPS readers are OK as long as they are only parsing combat data). Combat data is defined as any information that is created due to the usage of skills or impact on players due to skill usage (by the player/s or an outside source).

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/...thing/ddi8p8y/

We engaged in significant internal discussion about DPS meters even before we launched raids. Our discussions initially revolved around what we were going to do, but ultimately we wanted to see where the community was going.

We were not absolutely clear on our stance in relation to DPS meters because the ways they would be used (or potentially abused) was still evolving. In such a case, where we have not made a definitive statement yet are continuing to discuss internally, we did not want to take action against players until we have made our stance clear.

Now that we have set the bar and tool creators know what is acceptable, we are hoping that tool creators will make adjustments to their tools to make them compliant with our requirements and more accessible to a wider audience.

We will give our community plenty of time to make this adjustment before considering any action directly against tools or players that use them.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/...thing/ddi9n34/

[Hotmail]

I'm not sure what NCSoft is hoping to gain by restricting the influence that addons can have over the game in the first place? It's almost like having a metric by which you can compare yourself to other players, in a game built around competitive play, is a good thing.

[Proskill]

lol to me as wow player not having dmg meter addon is inconceivable

[Gray_Matter]

I'm not sure what NCSoft is hoping to gain by restricting the influence that addons can have over the game in the first place? It's almost like having a metric by which you can compare yourself to other players, in a game built around competitive play, is a good thing.

GW2 is only competitive for a very small portion of the play base. They don't want certain areas to become exclusive and have artificial player gates on them. Personally I like the idea of having a meter that I can practice various combinations with but I can see their hesitation. They are still keeping the restrictions for gear inspection in place.

[Hotmail]

GW2 is only competitive for a very small portion of the play base. They don't want certain areas to become exclusive and have artificial player gates on them. Personally I like the idea of having a meter that I can practice various combinations with but I can see their hesitation. They are still keeping the restrictions for gear inspection in place.

Isn't Guild Wars, which is primarily based around organized PvP, an inherently competitive MMORPG?

The developers can try as hard as they want, but there will always be some kind of badge of honor that the players will come up with so they can gate/sort people out of their communities. If not a DPS log or achievement, then a specific item or currency. And, the further Guild Wars' raiding scene develops, the more evident this might become.

[Edge-]

Raids bring DPS meters, which brings toxicity (because people are stupid), which harms the community overall.

Raiding in GW2 has been a mistake from day one, and that fact that they still have no plans for a "casual" mode of raids for folks who want to get the story (per their recent AMA on reddit) but back up the, "Just got into a cleared raid instance!" "solution", still pisses me off. It's such a 180 from everything that made the game so successful during classic, I really have no clue what the fuck happened that caused Anet to veer so far off course with HoT.

[Valeron]

I don't mind the raids. They are pretty well done. But I don't really particularly like the lore locked behind the raids. For someone who really enjoys the lore of the Guild Wars franchise and who doesn't raid much (not at all right now), I really dislike that.

[Deleted]

Is there even that many professions in GW2 that one could consider purely a DPS dealer?

[Edge-]

Is there even that many professions in GW2 that one could consider purely a DPS dealer?

Yes, every single one of them can effectively function as a primary DPS role. Though how the numbers break down between them, I have no clue.

[Deleted]

Yes, every single one of them can effectively function as a primary DPS role. Though how the numbers break down between them, I have no clue.

I guess that is true, I would just imagine that some professions would be utter rubbish at it and also too essential to sacrifice their abilities for damage. Like Guardians.

[Ajjax]

I'm not sure what NCSoft is hoping to gain by restricting the influence that addons can have over the game in the first place? It's almost like having a metric by which you can compare yourself to other players, in a game built around competitive play, is a good thing.

Abuse follows the information these meters provide. And by abuse i mean bullying, you can't tell me you haven't ran into some jackass ego driven guy who holds how you play simply to numbers. However, with the dawn of the dps meteri think came the hardcore scene which bloomed into evolving or works races for new tiers etc which can be a good positive thing. there's pros and cons like everything else.

[Kazgrel]

So the lore in the raid is part of the main story, so to speak, and not some offshoot?

[Valeron]

So the lore in the raid is part of the main story, so to speak, and not some offshoot?

Well you don't technically need it but the lore in there goes further into explaining and gives a better understanding of the lore surrounding the current events. For players who are just casual story players or who don't care much for the lore, it's no big deal. For those like myself, it is some good stuff. Is that lore in the raids needed? No but it is very interesting stuff for those that enjoy it.

[Svifnymr]

It's such a 180 from everything that made the game so successful during classic, I really have no clue what the fuck happened that caused Anet to veer so far off course with HoT.

I still imagine they saw a bunch of people saying they quit due to no raids, but never realized those people wouldn't be repeat players anyway.

[PACOX]

I don't mind the raids. They are pretty well done. But I don't really particularly like the lore locked behind the raids. For someone who really enjoys the lore of the Guild Wars franchise and who doesn't raid much (not at all right now), I really dislike that.

Haven't been in the new raid but I think they supposed to make it so you're not locked out of the lore. The lore for the first raid can be found at a NPC in Bloodstone Fen or whatever it's called.

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So the lore in the raid is part of the main story, so to speak, and not some offshoot?

The story in raids are kind of like "extra reading" or side stories.

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Is there even that many professions in GW2 that one could consider purely a DPS dealer?

Thief is just about the only class with metabuilds that aren't heavily influenced by what kind of group utility they bring. Even then it just relatively less than other classes. Not many high level encounters allow for selfish dps builds. Not to be confused with dps oriented builds.

[Fencers]

Isn't Guild Wars, which is primarily based around organized PvP, an inherently competitive MMORPG?

It is not inherently a PVP game.

Is there even that many professions in GW2 that one could consider purely a DPS dealer?

All of them. There is little else they do beside 'DPS' as the combat is heavily cooldown based.

[Gray_Matter]

Raids bring DPS meters, which brings toxicity (because people are stupid), which harms the community overall.

Raiding in GW2 has been a mistake from day one, and that fact that they still have no plans for a "casual" mode of raids for folks who want to get the story (per their recent AMA on reddit) but back up the, "Just got into a cleared raid instance!" "solution", still pisses me off. It's such a 180 from everything that made the game so successful during classic, I really have no clue what the fuck happened that caused Anet to veer so far off course with HoT.

I disgree. I don't see an issue with raids as long as they don't impede or take away from my gameplay. As Valeron said, the lore is a problem. Nothing like that should have been gated behind a raid. There should have been an alternate way to see it.

That doesn't mean that I don't have a problem with the GW2 raids. I do. Not because they exist but rather because I believe they took heavily away from the content that was included with the expansion. The expansion had about 1/3 of the amount of content that I expected for the price I paid and I think that was, in a large part, because of the amount of time they invested in the raid. Hopefully they don't fall into that trap in the future.

As I said above, I like being able to have a DPS meter so I can tune my play style. As it stands, I just get a feeling of how my char is doing. It feels like my Engineer hits like a wet noodle and the warrior like a freight train. Now I can play with my talents and skills and see how it's doing. What I previously thought was good skill priorities might be really poor.

Just a note, people were using DPS meters anyway. It was just against the TOS. At least now the addons will be modified to remove the gear checks, etc. There is also a chance that people outside the meta might be able to get into groups if they can do decent damage. As it stands, certain professions are kept out of groups because the belief is that they won't be competitive.

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I still imagine they saw a bunch of people saying they quit due to no raids, but never realized those people wouldn't be repeat players anyway.

To be fair, there was a lot of players that didn't have anything serious to do except fractals. I just hope they can balance the content for those players with their numbers.

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Isn't Guild Wars, which is primarily based around organized PvP, an inherently competitive MMORPG?

The developers can try as hard as they want, but there will always be some kind of badge of honor that the players will come up with so they can gate/sort people out of their communities. If not a DPS log or achievement, then a specific item or currency. And, the further Guild Wars' raiding scene develops, the more evident this might become.

The majority of players are casual in GW2 and do a mix of PVP and PVE.

[LilSaihah]

I'm pretty happy with the rules they've laid out for meters & broadly I don't agree with the suggestion that raids aren't good for the game. They're challenging endgame content and multi-modal raiding would not work with the fundamental ideas of the game (no gear treadmill, always-relevant content).

So the lore in the raid is part of the main story, so to speak, and not some offshoot?

None of the raids are really part of the main story.

The first raid (Forsaken Thicket) is a precursor to the current set of story releases but you don't need them to understand what's going on in the story. You're likely to miss more of the story if you haven't played the early Human steps than you are if you don't play the raids, and all of the particularly pointy ends of the raid story are also covered in the open-world content.

The second raid (Bastion of the Penitent) is lore food especially for GW1 players, but the story of Bastion of the Penitent is not directly relevant to anything in GW2 or even GW1:Prophecies.