Blizzard have effectively gotten rid of flying

[Effenz]

It's ok, if you do it for the first time. But how about doing it every day? What if you need to go to your work and this extra time waste consumes your free time, you need to do something else, like taking some rest/shower/housework? What if this time waste burns your life? What if there are more important things in your life, than simply getting from point A to point B? I'll give you another example. Yeah, walking can be considered more "immersive", but without car my travel radius is limited by 1-2km from nearest transport. For example, when I live in my country house, I may decide to go to nearest city, that is 30km away, to buy some goods, instead of being limited by local shops, that sell important stuff only. I could do it via bus, but it goes there 2 times a day only, so I will get stuck there for several hours. Or I may decide to go to church, that is 4km away. Or may be to river, that is 2km away. Or I may just go exploring, instead of just sitting at home and watching TV. Car allows me to go, where I want and when I want. Same with flying, but in larger scale. Personal chopper or plane doesn't allow you too see every tree or blade of grass, but it allows you to do some better things - to visit places, that are hundreds of kilometers away or even different countries. What's the point in seeing same tree every day, if you can see Paris or New York? So, "exploration" and "immersion" - are very relative and subjective things. Yeah, ground mount isn't so limiting, as walking, but still - flying allows me to do, what I want to do, every day. Without flying I wouldn't be able to do it, cuz current ground design is way too ineffective and bottlenecked. Outdoor content would be too tedious for me and therefore I wouldn't be able to sustain it for long enough time - I would burn out and quit very soon. And as I've already seen both MOP and WOD disasters - I don't want to repeat this crap again for Legion.

MoP had flying at max level, for gold. Glad you thought it was a disaster.

[SirCowdog]

That isn't true, because to be able to use the flightpath to begin with you have to discover it. With flying you wouldn't be required to discover the flightpaths and therefore not even visit the place before you can just fly past it.

So you're admitting that it's ok to skip content after the first time we set foot in it? Great! Now....why don't we have flying right now in Legion content after criss-crossing and repeating the content hundreds of times?

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A flightpath is like taking a bus. Flying is like having your own private helicopter.

Yes, and there are many places that can only be reached by helicopters. Restricting people to using only the bus actually limits exploration and discovery in that sense.

[Effenz]

So you're admitting that it's ok to skip content after the first time we set foot in it? Great! Now....why don't we have flying right now in Legion content after criss-crossing and repeating the content hundreds of times?

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Yes, and there are many places that can only be reached by helicopters. Restricting people to using only the bus actually limits exploration and discovery in that sense.

There are very very very few places in legion that you actually need the helicopter to get to. I for one can't think of any off the top of my head. Legion and WoD's maps have been designed as such.
You'd know that if you did more than whine, though.

next you'll say that you don't want to find that path and you rather just drop down from the sky, huh?

[SirCowdog]

The world becomes bigger when there is no flying

What? No it doesn't. The world is the same size, it just takes longer to get places when you're stuck on the ground.

Things take time and traveling is a part of the game.

Because you don't take time to travel while flying? Just because you're being forced to navigate a rat maze to reach somewhere doesn't automatically make the rat maze more valuable, especially when I've already cleared the maze dozens, if not hundreds, of times already.

Remember why you started playing wow its about the journey not the destination lol.

When I started playing wow it was about grinding mats and gold so I could raid.

TBC was okay because getting gold for a flying mount took a long time so hardly anyone had it except for the druids.. I guess they I'd be okay with them adding flying back in the game for a high ass gold grind but it would make the battle net tokens look bad lol.

Almost everyone got flying in TBC very shortly after they hit 70. It was only the grind for the 5k gold to get epic flight that took more time. And even then it wasn't actually that hard to do if you were already used to the grinds required to raid in Vanilla.

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There are very very very few places in legion that you actually need the helicopter to get to. I for one can't think of any off the top of my head. Legion and WoD's maps have been designed as such.
You'd know that if you did more than whine, though.

You compared flying to real life busses and helicopters. I followed your analogy.

[Sprinky]

For the amount of time I actually spend in the outside world. Goblin glider and Emerald winds is more than enough to get from place to place in quick time. If you plan your routes carefully, using a flying mount would not be that much quicker. If I were Blizzard I would be the ultimate troll and enable flying mounts with lower speed than ground mounts.

[SirCowdog]

Are you people seriously still trotting out these trollish talking points as actual discussion? Blizzard continues to sell flying mounts because flying wasn't removed from the game. Fucking stop it already.

That is a disingenuous and underhanded justification and you know it.

What you people don't seem to understand is that the issues with flying isn't restricted to exploring areas for the first time but with how players interact with each other and with the game world. Whether you have quested in a zone 5 times or 500 times flying reduces much of that interaction which is why people have been complaining about flying being in game. I don't have an issue with those who disagree with this complaint but please stop pretending like this isn't a valid reason to take issue with flying.

First it was that flying ruins the presentation of the content. After that it was that flying killed PVP. Then it was that flying skips content entirely. Now it's that it hurts player interaction? It would be nice if you guys would make up your mind what deviltry flying is actually responsible for.

The entire premise of your point, however, is flawed in that it assumes that players are going to interact with each other on the ground more than they would with flying. The invasion events show that players will happily interact both with the content and with other players even when they HAVE flying, so long as there's something interesting and worthwhile to do. The idea that player interaction can only happen from the ground, or that flying automatically prevents and damages interaction, is just plain false.

[Effenz]

What? No it doesn't. The world is the same size, it just takes longer to get places when you're stuck on the ground.



Because you don't take time to travel while flying? Just because you're being forced to navigate a rat maze to reach somewhere doesn't automatically make the rat maze more valuable, especially when I've already cleared the maze dozens, if not hundreds, of times already.



When I started playing wow it was about grinding mats and gold so I could raid.



Almost everyone got flying in TBC very shortly after they hit 70. It was only the grind for the 5k gold to get epic flight that took more time. And even then it wasn't actually that hard to do if you were already used to the grinds required to raid in Vanilla.

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You compared flying to real life busses and helicopters. I followed your analogy.

And I'm telling you that no, there aren't many places you need a helicopter to get to.

[tumppu]

I haven't missed flying at any point during Legion. Since they will now enable it, I guess it will be a QoL improvement for us who still have alts with their training wheels on (sub 110 that is). Other than that, getting around the isles has been pretty smooth all through the expansion. I'm guessing people in PvP servers will vilify and/or cheer this, based on whether they are gankers or gankees

[Effenz]

That is a disingenuous and underhanded justification and you know it.








First it was that flying ruins the presentation of the content. After that it was that flying killed PVP. Then it was that flying skips content entirely. Now it's that it hurts player interaction? It would be nice if you guys would make up your mind what deviltry flying is actually responsible for.

The entire premise of your point, however, is flawed in that it assumes that players are going to interact with each other on the ground more than they would with flying. The invasion events show that players will happily interact both with the content and with other players even when they HAVE flying, so long as there's something interesting and worthwhile to do. The idea that player interaction can only happen from the ground, or that flying automatically prevents and damages interaction, is just plain false.

All of it? it's not just one thing. Did you think it was just one thing?

[SirCowdog]

Icecrown as a zone was the worst for leveling

Maybe that's because it wasn't meant as a leveling zone, but instead was designed for players at level cap who already had flying?

[Kauko]

@SirCowdog: And pro-tip for you, go play a single player game because the second flying arrives, players disappear from the world... The game becomes just another "Turn on, Menu, Game mode, Invite friends, Find game..." game. Everything becomes instant, things become boring faster.

The one thing MMO differs from other type of games becomes almost irrelevant. And for realms like Maelstrom where there actually Allies and Hordies fight one another, WPVP becomes nonexistent. I am not against flying, just don't want it so soon in the expansion when people still roam on the new continent.

[SirCowdog]

And I'm telling you that no, there aren't many places you need a helicopter to get to.

In real life(you know, the reference you made with busses and helicopters?) there are LOTS of places that can only be reached with a helicopter.

Jesus man....you started the analogy and you can't even keep up with it?

[Effenz]

In real life(you know, the reference you made with busses and helicopters?) there are LOTS of places that can only be reached with a helicopter.

Jesus man....you started the analogy and you can't even keep up with it?

Lol so, you want to keep the analogy made in reference to the game to stick to real life?
Are you for real?

[SirCowdog]

All of it? it's not just one thing. Did you think it was just one thing?

I think there are all manner of excuses that people make up in order to justify either their blind hate, or their blind fanaticism. None of them adequately justify how Blizzard has handled flying since WoD.

[Willhouse]

WOW without flying is not remotely enjoyable.Fistfull of elitist jerks didnt like flying so blizz removed it and now everyone complains how wow is grindy and boring.Pfft...figures.

[Deianeira]

Yeah, you have never played Vanilla.

Vanilla never had frustrating terrain like this.

Seems to me you are just a bad player, i have had no problems with legion terrain or zones. The ONLY zone that got a bit troublesome was in the city of Suramar in the beginning. But the place is fantastiskt now that you Know how it works. It would friggin suck to have flying there from start.

[SirCowdog]

@SirCowdog: And pro-tip for you, go play a single player game because the second flying arrives, players disappear from the world... The game becomes just another "Turn on, Menu, Game mode, Invite friends, Find game..." game. Everything becomes instant, things become boring faster.

The one thing MMO differs from other type of games becomes almost irrelevant. And for realms like Maelstrom where there actually Allies and Hordies fight one another, WPVP becomes nonexistent. I am not against flying, just don't want it so soon in the expansion when people still roam on the new continent.

Did this happen during the invasion event? Does it ever happen around areas where the content is actually relevant and interesting?

Flying doesn't cause players to disappear from the world. Short-term, disposable, uninteresting content does that. Or do you expect me to believe that content like the squirrel-kicking world quest is the height of what promotes player interaction? Do you know what actually promotes player-interaction? Content that actually needs more than one player to complete. You know...like dungeons and raids, or world bosses.

Players will gather wherever there are things that are worthwhile to do. How they get there, or how they actually navigate that content is largely secondary to that fact. If Blizzard wants players to interact then they need to create more content which actually promotes and rewards interacting, NOT by trying to dictate and force people into a single, narrow style of play with little choice in the matter.

[Effenz]

I think there are all manner of excuses that people make up in order to justify either their blind hate, or their blind fanaticism. None of them adequately justify how Blizzard has handled flying since WoD.

You can't possibly think all of your sides excuses aren't pure bullshit, can you?
lmao

[Deleted]

Only thing i want flying for is archaeology to farm those pristines. Doesnt care about it otherwise.

[Effenz]

Did this happen during the invasion event? Does it ever happen around areas where the content is actually relevant and interesting?

Flying doesn't cause players to disappear from the world. Short-term, disposable, uninteresting content does that. Or do you expect me to believe that content like the squirrel-kicking world quest is the height of what promotes player interaction? Do you know what actually promotes player-interaction? Content that actually needs more than one player to complete. You know...like dungeons and raids, or world bosses.

Players will gather wherever there are things that are worthwhile to do. How they get there, or how they actually navigate that content is largely secondary to that fact. If Blizzard wants players to interact then they need to create more content which actually promotes and rewards interacting, NOT by trying to dictate and force people into a single, narrow style of play with little choice in the matter.

SO you want everything to be a 5man or more group quest then? Lol.
jesus.