"The Future of Obamacare" debate [Cruz vs. Sanders]

[belleflop]

The To Long Didn't Watch version:
Bernie: I believe every American has a right to have affordable quality healthcare!
Cruz: Every American has the right to have access to healthcare!
Bernie: What does that even mean, access? It means nothing.

Democrats plan: Fix parts of ACA that aren't working (ballooning premiums)
Republicans: Race to the bottom for ACCESS to healthcare. Medicaid and Medicare turned into voucher system (sorry elders gtfo). Tax cuts for top 1%, because tinkle down healthcare?

[Fitheach]

My favorite Sanders moment: "Access doesn't mean a DAMN THING!"

I found Cruz's speech transcript very interesting.

[PosPosPos]

Yeah, he has a habit of falling back on to tag lines. Roommates and I were guessing how many times he'd say "Super PACS" in the debates.

Until the US stops being an alternative reality TV program, Bernie isn't going to get very far. He does best when he gets to argue pure unadulterated fact, but the moment he's expected to make an emotional appeal because people care more about feels than the reality of the situation(or that his opponents keeps forcing the debate into that direction), he falls over flat.

[Deathknell]

Let healthcare be operated by private citizens in the free market because healthcare is not a 'right'????? By saying that access to good healthcare (Whatever the hell that means) is a right it needs to be guaranteed somehow, and the only way to do that is to steal people's money at gunpoint. You're essentially saying that people have no rights at all.

[Ahovv]

I don't even care about this debate, I just find it fucking hilarious that any Republican or dissenting position is now being framed as "alt-right."

Can't argue your point well enough, so you have to imply someone is a Neo-Nazi?

[Fitheach]

Let healthcare be operated by private citizens in the free market because healthcare is not a 'right'????? By saying that access to good healthcare (Whatever the hell that means) is a right it needs to be guaranteed somehow, and the only way to do that is to steal people's money at gunpoint. You're essentially saying that people have no rights at all.

It is a service vital to our survival. Health care services are less about rights and more about our need to survive.

Private enterprise is excessively short term about this and irresponsible with drug production and pricing and distribution.

[Extremity]

Generic drugs is kinda red herring, most of our expenses come from branded drugs. So not so much of a point for Bernie, if we deregulate as Cruz suggests then it should be work like a charm.

- - - Updated - - -



How much other countries invest in R&D? The USA I think invest ~49% in total in R&D for drugs. I don't think this is true for a lot of countries in Europe and Canada.

There's a pretty major flaw in drug cost, though. As far as I know, almost every other country has a division of government that negotiates the prices of drugs that will be offered in their country. If a company tries to get in with a new drug that's 1% more effective but they charge 4 times as much, they'll have to convince them why it's worthwhile. It's much harder for them to gouge. I'm sure there could be problems with this like medications you need not being available, but I'm pretty sure they give more wiggle room to medications that are the only option, and these pharmaceutical companies almost always lower the price, as they still profit at a reasonable one.

Here, there's no regulation, they charge what they want. There are medications here that are like triple their cost in England or Australia; same exact medication, the producer still profits... but if they can sell it for triple here, why not? We wouldn't even lose any medications, we're a tremendous market, but a little oversight would be huge to helping overall health in the country and prevent what is quite literally the scamming of the American people.

I know the right and many others look at government oversight as the devil and that adding more is a horrible thing, but we need SOME sort of system in place for this. I get the free market, but when it comes to life-saving medications its ridiculous that a company can charge 10 times more than they need to to make a decent profit simply because they know you're FUCKED if you don't buy it.

[Baelic]

Watching these two go at it... I'm nearly speechless.

THIS is the kind of discussions we should have had ages ago, THIS is the show of mutual respect we need. THIS is the show of mutual coming together that we need right now.

Why could this not have happened during the election?

[Dug]

Watching these two go at it... I'm nearly speechless.

THIS is the kind of discussions we should have had ages ago, THIS is the show of mutual respect we need. THIS is the show of mutual coming together that we need right now.

Why could this not have happened during the election?

Ask the Republicans

[Barnabas]

In bernie's world a million people have to find another job. I don't see that as a solution.

[Barnabas]

1. These people shouldn't just have a job because they invented or are part of a worthless, or even parasitic business. (Yes, there are lots of people working for health insurance companies, arguably way too many)
2. The American people are needlessly having to pay much much more than every other western nation to get the same healthcare (or in often cases worse healthcare), just so everyone employed by health insurance companies can make a living and their top managers a luxurious profit.

If you're alright with just making the american people pay needlessly for a parasitic business (eg. one that negatively impacts society) then you really have no argument against big government (government job creation) or social welfare either.

It's not the insurance companies fault the admins in a hospital decide the treatment and the costs of those treatments, for example. It's not the doctor treating you deciding that. The greed is in the healthcare industry itself.

[NED funded]

In bernie's world a million people have to find another job. I don't see that as a solution.

In Bernie's world small business owners are literally the devil.

[Sunseeker]

In bernie's world a million people have to find another job. I don't see that as a solution.

Who, exactly? Doctors and nurses would obviously still be employed, as would all the CNAs and other such things. Hospitals would still need cooks and janitors. There'd still be receptionists and administrators. R&D wouldn't be nationalized, private companies could still develop all the drugs they want, they'd just be making contracts with the government instead of each other. Who, exactly, would be losing their jobs?

[Blur4stuff]

I'm guessing they're referring to jobs that are just middlemen like insurance.

But again, this entire discussion seems so ridiculous. It's been proven time and time again that there are better ways to manage healthcare for a country. Conservatives are trying so hard to reinvent the wheel because anything the left likes has coodies.

[Barnabas]

I'm guessing they're referring to jobs that are just middlemen like insurance.

But again, this entire discussion seems so ridiculous. It's been proven time and time again that there are better ways to manage healthcare for a country. Conservatives are trying so hard to reinvent the wheel because anything the left likes has coodies.

I wouldn't say cory booker has cooties but his interests are in line with his donors not the people. Sanders wants to eliminate an industry and fire a bunch of people because he is placing blame on the wrong industry for healthcare costs. It's not cooties it's just the things the left likes is idiotic or pandering to the wrong party lately. Primarily these two examples not everything.