San Francisco Brings Back Tuition-Free College

[TITAN308]

So computer science is on your list of "garbage" then? It has a higher unemployed rate than people holding freaking Liberal Arts degrees. Seriously. LA degree holders who are unemployed (recent grads)? 7.6%. CS degree holders who are unemployed (also recent grads)? 7.8%.

Well if the stats show a high unemployment rate. Then sure, its garbage?

I'm not going to blindly say a degree is worth the paper its printed on because it has the word science or computer in it.

If the market is oversaturated then do something else.

[Steve French]

I guess the government should stop paying for roads and schools and the military. I mean, they are stealing from people to give stuff to other people.

Yeah that's exactly what I implied right? That any and all taxes are theft? It's pathetic the only way you people can argue is to build straw men.

[Wyrt]

Yeah that's exactly what I implied right? That any and all taxes are theft? It's pathetic the only way you people can argue is to build straw men.

You implied that taxes used to benefit society is theft so I brought up other things that benefit society that are paid for with tax money.

[Captain N]

In this thread -- Angry Conservatives who will never see a piece of property in the five million dollar range raging about taxes applied to said property to benefit the city of San Francisco as a whole.

The blind worship of the ultra wealthy at the expense of everyone else is truly pathetic.

[Annoying]

Well if the stats show a high unemployment rate. Then sure, its garbage?

I'm not going to blindly say a degree is worth the paper its printed on because it has the word science or computer in it.

If the market is oversaturated then do something else.

And yet here you are enjoying the fruits of what CS has given the world.

Also, "do something else" -- sure, let me get my time machine out and go back to when I started college, switch majors, and get a MS in some other field.

When I started college, petroleum engineering was freaking the best thing ever. Literally "oh god, get a degree in it, they all get $100k+ starting and a guaranteed job." Oh hey, turns out it has dipped real, real bad and isn't a great idea to get that degree now. It's almost like you can't rely on the future working out how you wanted.

That's no surprise in light of dwindling job prospects. In 2014, 95 percent of graduates with a bachelor's degree in petroleum engineering found work in the oil and gas industry, according to the Society of Petroleum Engineers. This year [2015 article], 64 percent found work.

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/12/04/petro...m-to-bust.html

Seriously. I get the hate on "garbage degrees", but labeling something as "garbage" based on hire rates, rather than worth to the world is backwards.

[kneehidude]

They should make it conditional. If you end up with an FN, then you have to pay back the entire tuition plus interest.

[Steve French]

You implied that taxes used to benefit society is theft so I brought up other things that benefit society that are paid for with tax money.

No actually I didn't, was this thread about taxes period? Or was it about a specific tax that funds "free college". Reading is hard.

[TITAN308]

And yet here you are enjoying the fruits of what CS has given the world.

Also, "do something else" -- sure, let me get my time machine out and go back to when I started college, switch majors, and get a MS in some other field.

When I started college, petroleum engineering was freaking the best thing ever. Literally "oh god, get a degree in it, they all get $100k+ starting and a guaranteed job." Oh hey, turns out it has dipped real, real bad and isn't a great idea to get that degree now. It's almost like you can't rely on the future working out how you wanted.



http://www.cnbc.com/2015/12/04/petro...m-to-bust.html

Seriously. I get the hate on "garbage degrees", but labeling something as "garbage" based on hire rates, rather than worth to the world is backwards.

We aren't talking about the past, we are talking about a program that is going to start in the now.

I think your comparison is false.

Of course we can't control the outcome of change in the future, we can try and however make smart decisions based on the present.

IMO there should be a basic college course that all students must take prior to picking a degree, one that has them study the current economy, job over-saturations, needed jobs and so forth. At least something basic along these lines, or at the very least make it part of the core classes like basic math, english, and stuff.

[Dreknar20]

You implied that taxes used to benefit society is theft so I brought up other things that benefit society that are paid for with tax money.

not everyone needs a college education

A lot more crappier jobs need to be filled than good ones

[breadisfunny]

not everyone needs a college education

A lot more crappier jobs need to be filled than good ones

what exactly gives you the right to determine what people need?

[Annoying]

Are liberal arts degree holders employed in their field? Is the market oversaturated? Are these jobs US wide or simply delegated to state?

The other thinng to keep in mind is what do the jobs available to a degree entail? There is going to be a mess more teaching/wendy's jobs for liberal arts degrees than architect jobs

The data I was using is US-wide and in-field employment 2009-2010.

[PDF WARNING] Here.

As for what they entail - I think getting a degree and a teaching job is a pretty worthwhile use of said degree.

- - - Updated - - -

We aren't talking about the past, we are talking about a program that is going to start in the now.

I think your comparison is false.

Of course we can't control the outcome of change in the future, we can try and however make smart decisions based on the present.

IMO there should be a basic college course that all students must take prior to picking a degree, one that has them study the current economy, job over-saturations, needed jobs and so forth. At least something basic along these lines, or at the very least make it part of the core classes like basic math, english, and stuff.

Well, we have a "basic college course" in general degree requirements, so that fits your "make it part of the core classes" part. I'm not keen on worrying about over-saturation though, as I feel that focusing on that would doom fields that actually still need people. Just like the article I linked says -- even the dipping field of petro is going to need tons and tons of people in the future.

Yeah, it should be discussed, that's great. Really, I'm not being sarcastic. But I feel it should be more of an ASVAB thing where we say "hey, you're really good at field <x>, let's give you a scholarship/free tuition if you go into field <x>."

Not a "Field <x> has higher unemployment than field <y>, so you only get free tuition for field <y>", which is what you're saying by going with over-saturation.

[Deleted]

Only courses which are actually needed should be made free. Mainly science, engineering and so on.
Taxes should not be wasted on worthless sociology, communication and gender studies degrees.

[callipygoustp]

Don't be afraid of what San Francisco is doing today. As in the past, those outside of California have about 5-10 years before they make the change as well. Change is scary, but its coming slowly. You have plenty of time to get comfortable and adjust.

[Kaleredar]

Stealing money from people who have lots because you want free things, such a heroic thing to do! Whats the point in earning things when you can just cry til' you get what you want, right?

If you think taxation is stealing, take it up with George Washington:

"it is essential that you should practically bear in mind that towards the payment of debts there must be revenue; that to have revenue there must be taxes"

[Super Kami Dende]

WOOOO! Free Gender Study and Liberal Arts Degrees for everyone!

[The Stormbringer]

Hopefully they limit free college to actual degrees that will have a good return on investment, like mechanical engineering or medicine for example.

If they are allowing people free tuition to get playground management and gender studies degrees then its a waste of resources.

Our country needs 10,000 more welders, not 10,000 more philosophers.

Yeah, who needs people who think about genuine and deep issues? We just need people who can affix pieces of metal together with tools.

EDIT: And I've been a welder. You mostly need to know a lot of safety rules and precautions and how to use the equipment. Beyond that, it's following instructions and doing your best. Not exactly hard, at least until you get to doing it on high rises or underwater.

[TITAN308]

Yeah, who needs people who think about genuine and deep issues? We just need people who can affix pieces of metal together with tools.

I never said we don't need philosophers. We just don't need more philosophers than tradesmen.

As a fair trade off I would not be opposed to the idea to limited slots per degree type when its provided for free.

[Steve French]

If you think taxation is stealing, take it up with George Washington:

Very clever! Still can't read though I guess, no banana sticker for you.

[kail]

Well if the stats show a high unemployment rate. Then sure, its garbage?

I'm not going to blindly say a degree is worth the paper its printed on because it has the word science or computer in it.

If the market is oversaturated then do something else.

Sounds rather complex imo if the free education is going fluctuate based on the market.

Are there "garbage" degrees? Sure. Some super niche education like archeology or some alternative medicine is something I don't mind being payed out of the student's pocket (or w/e scholarship they are entitled to). But to determine free education entirely based on demand? Little too much IMO. IDC how saturated IT related jobs are, I'd consider it education that will improve society.

[Klingers]

So it's not free.

Man, liberals love other people's money.

Those other people can afford it. They're rich.

Also, fuck them.