San Francisco Brings Back Tuition-Free College

[drakensoul]

Stealing money from people who have lots because you want free things, such a heroic thing to do! Whats the point in earning things when you can just cry til' you get what you want, right?

Your OP was a general statement. People who have lots, free things, earning things, cry til' (why is there an apostrophe there?) you get what you want. Maybe you meant it to be restricted to a context (after people railed you for how obviously ridiculous it is), but it wasn't. Hence the reason you've had so many people read it as a general statement: It's not because said so many people can't read, it's because you failed to word it correctly.

But graaah make witty quips about 6 different people being unable to read and add an emoticon and a sticker and poof, you've convinced yourself you were right. Congratulations to you! Weave that luxurious straw dress around yourself, faster now!

Since you're such an obvious proponent of operating at grade-school level; here, your turn for a sticker.

[Rooflesstoofless]

You don't seem to be aware that these sorts of degrees are decreasing as a percentage of total graduate degrees.

As they should be.

Then again, I doubt you're familiar with what gender studies actually encompasses.

Does it encompass gender studies?

[Steve French]

Your OP was a general statement. People who have lots, free things, earning things, cry til' (why is there an apostrophe there?) you get what you want. Maybe you meant it to be restricted to a context (after people railed you for how obviously ridiculous it is), but it wasn't. Hence the reason you've had so many people read it as a general statement: It's not because said so many people can't read, it's because you failed to word it correctly.

But graaah make witty quips about 6 different people being unable to read and add an emoticon and a sticker and poof, you've convinced yourself you were right. Congratulations to you! Weave that luxurious straw dress around yourself, faster now!

Since you're such an obvious proponent of operating at grade-school level; here, your turn for a sticker.

I'm sorry you people seem to lack common sense, or any sense at all. What pray tell is this thread about? That's right! Free college that is funded by a special tax levied on the rich. What other tax would I be talking about in a thread about "free" college that is funded by a certain tax the average person will never hear about. I'm sorry you couldn't figure out what I was talking about, seems pretty simple to me but I guess its not the reading part that was so hard for you, just the using common sense part. Still though, no banana sticker for you.

Before you go and say this thread wasn't about tax at all!

"The funding source for the San Francisco free community college is perhaps its most interesting feature: last November’s successful Proposition W ballot initiative, which imposed a new tax on the sale of properties costing more than $5 million. In a city with insane top-end real-estate prices and some of the worst inequality in the country, there’s a lot of justice in this particular form of wealth redistribution. "

It's right there in the OP. Sorry for keeping my posts on topic, must have been hard to keep up.

[Mehrunes]

Your OP was a general statement. People who have lots, free things, earning things, cry til' (why is there an apostrophe there?) you get what you want. Maybe you meant it to be restricted to a context (after people railed you for how obviously ridiculous it is), but it wasn't. Hence the reason you've had so many people read it as a general statement: It's not because said so many people can't read, it's because you failed to word it correctly.

But graaah make witty quips about 6 different people being unable to read and add an emoticon and a sticker and poof, you've convinced yourself you were right. Congratulations to you! Weave that luxurious straw dress around yourself, faster now!

Since you're such an obvious proponent of operating at grade-school level; here, your turn for a sticker.

Shhhh, it's obvious they operate on a whole other level of literacy that your feeble mind is unable to grasp. Future generations will call it "alternative literacy".

[Rasulis]

The City of SF already had an existing tax on the transfer of property located within the locality. This is actually pretty common throughout the US. All Prop W did was increase the transfer tax for property between 5M - 10M from 2% to 2.25%, and from 10M - 25M from 2.5% to 2.75%, and above 25M from 2.5% to 3.0%. It mostly affect commercial properties/transactions. Even in a city like SF, 5M plus single-family residences are not that common.

Keep in mind, the proposition passed overwhelmingly with 62% vote.

[Spectral]

In a city with insane top-end real-estate prices and some of the worst inequality in the country, there’s a lot of justice in this particular form of wealth redistribution.

"Justice".

Heh.

[Mayhem]

I was only choosing one useless degree that came mind when I posted.

There is all kinds of garbage out there. Hell my college offers a "Golf Course Management" degree. =/

And people don´t choose "useless degrees" any more often than previous generations, but why look at reality when you can rant about imaginary made up problems instead, right?

[Elegiac]

Well yeah since half of them found out they were pretty worthless. Then again the more colleges become free, the more you're going to need graduate degrees for shitty jobs, but people don't think about that. I mean you could be a manager 15 years ago with a high school diploma and now they're not really even hiring without graduate level degrees at some places.

Tertiary qualifications are already required for entry into the workforce. It's time we viewed college/vocational training/apprenticeships the same way we do elementary and high school; something guaranteed at no cost to the user as a matter of right.

- - - Updated - - -

As they should be.

Because you say so, right?

Not everyone is cut out for STEM, nor are the existing STEM graduates in the US particularly desirable in comparison to their Chinese and Indian counterparts.

Does it encompass gender studies?

In the same way that astronomy encompasses astronomy, yes.

'Gender studies' is one of those degrees which has a name that conservatives don't like that provides a convenient punching bag whenever they get the urge to rag on intellectuals, which is constantly - prior to that, the fashion was bitching about art history.

It doesn't speak either to the validity of the field nor the employability of people who choose that major. Chances are gender studies graduates are a lot better at critical thinking than your average business or communications major, point in fact.

[Ave07]

Well it's the most expensive city in America to live in so I guess it's fair.

[kail]

$46 per credit hour?

That's ALL IT COST? Holy crap, most students would gladly pay that compared to most prices. O_O

$1500 a year for a full load of 15 credit hours per semester!

I imagine most people would gladly pay back a student loan if it was only $6,000 at the end of four years. That's less than a car for crying out loud.

Education should not cost as much as it does now; not in this day and age with information sharing. There is so much we can and already learn from free sites like khan, wiki, Youtube, reddit, and so on. But unless you drop the many G's on exams, then that knowledge is useless without the degree.

[TITAN308]

And people don´t choose "useless degrees" any more often than previous generations, but why look at reality when you can rant about imaginary made up problems instead, right?

Your argument would work if I said "useless degrees were OK in the past, just not now"

Guess what, they were garbage then and garbage now.

Better question, why are you oppose to no free tuition for playground management? I'm trying to be reasonable in my opinion, but you are are all in and it makes it difficult to debate with someone who is like, nope nope nope.

Resources are are not infinite, we need to start spending them better.

[Whitedragon]

Then don't work for it.

While I may not be cool with 100% tax rate, if I can't keep it, then it's not really my money. Changing tax rates for a what if situation doesn't change who the money belongs to.

So let me ask you, do you get to keep the taxed portion of your paycheck?

No, but then again I also don't keep the money i use to pay rent or the money I use to buy food it was all my money though. In the end you can say it was never my money, but then you answer your own question as to why i'm not ok with more taxes, as I have less money because of it.

Your argument would work if I said "useless degrees were OK in the past, just not now"

Guess what, they were garbage then and garbage now.

Better question, why are you oppose to no free tuition for playground management? I'm trying to be reasonable in my opinion, but you are are all in and it makes it difficult to debate with someone who is like, nope nope nope.

Resources are are not infinite, we need to start spending them better.

Usually it turns into a "well you should have no say it what someone wants to learn." kind of scenario, to which i reply sure but if that's the case then then pay for it yourself.

[Extremity]

So it's not free.

Man, liberals love other people's money.

What's considered "free" in your book?

Edit: So how difficult is it to get in on this? Can literally any resident of the city take advantage of it? If I moved to SanFran next week, would I be able to enroll once I established a permanent residence there? Is there any sort of restriction on length of current residence or anything?

[Whitedragon]

What's considered "free" in your book?

Edit: So how difficult is it to get in on this? Can literally any resident of the city take advantage of it? If I moved to SanFran next week, would I be able to enroll once I established a permanent residence there? Is there any sort of restriction on length of current residence or anything?

I would say Free in this case would be if the only one lousing anything from the deal is the person offering it, otherwise its just passing the bill onto someone else.

As for your second question i do believe it is just a permanent resident thing. A buddy of mine moved down there after finishing his tour of duty in the air force, and I believe he got the local rates after moving into the city.

[TITAN308]

Usually it turns into a "well you should have no say it what someone wants to learn." kind of scenario, to which i reply sure but if that's the case then then pay for it yourself.

Absolutely. If you are dead set on getting a degree in playground management have at it. With your own money.

The state should have a say and in what quantities they give our paid grants/tuition's.

I'm actually OK with free college for engineers, medicine (not natural remedies hippie bullshit), teachers, and even history or similar educations. However there should be a cap on how many per school year or semester there are and there should be at minimum DOUBLE tradeskill diplomas/degrees available slots.

If you want to take something outside of this, do it on your own dime.

I don't mind repeating myself; we need philosophers, what we don't need are more philosophers than tradesmen. (or tradespeople for those easily offended)

[Themius]

I don't mind society funded college as long as the end result is something society needs.

This country has a huge shortage of welders, electricians, and other similar skilled type careers. Here is the kicker, these jobs pay pretty damn good after you put in your time. Meanwhile Susie Q is stuck working at Starbucks and $50,000 in debt because her liberal arts degree isn't quite panning out, or in this case it would be a waste of societal resources.

There are liberal arts degrees that make money... Economics being oen of them.

[TITAN308]

There are liberal arts degrees that make money... Economics being oen of them.

Well a quick cruise of google shows its within top 10 worst college degrees.

6. Liberal Arts

A liberal arts degree is the laughing stock of college degree programs for a reason: it’s not specialized enough to prepare you for a specific career. That’s why most liberal arts majors end up working in an entirely different field, such as real estate, business, finance, or sales.

A 2014 BLS report even listed liberal arts majors as a group that “fared poorly” when it came to overall unemployment. What this goes to prove is that a bachelor’s degree in liberal arts might make you a well-rounded person, but it won’t necessarily help you get a decent job.

More to the point ANY degree can make money. That wasn't the point.

[Whitedragon]

Absolutely. If you are dead set on getting a degree in playground management have at it. With your own money.

The state should have a say and in what quantities they give our paid grants/tuition's.

I'm actually OK with free college for engineers, medicine (not natural remedies hippie bullshit), teachers, and even history or similar educations. However there should be a cap on how many per school year or semester there are and there should be at minimum DOUBLE tradeskill diplomas/degrees available slots.

If you want to take something outside of this, do it on your own dime.

I don't mind repeating myself; we need philosophers, what we don't need are more philosophers than tradesmen. (or tradespeople for those easily offended)

I agree, and a fun fact we hire teams of people to help regulate the ups and downs of are economy, why shouldn't that extend to making judgment calls on a yearly or bi yearly basses as it goes for education. That way we may get less En mass exoduses into fields that really only needed a 10-20% boost of interest.

[Masark]

Well a quick cruise of google shows its within top 10 worst college degrees.

There is more to humans than being cogs for your god market.

[bladeXcrasher]

I wonder if this free college is an economic thing?

There's no cheap housing in San Francisco these days, an apartment that measured 15 feet by 12 feet went for $350k. People pay $2,000 a month for rent, maybe San Francisco can't get enough students, students who have plenty of choices for colleges to go to where the cost of living is very cheap.

Maybe the college in San Francisco was running out of students?

It's almost like you are the only person that read the text in italics.