rogues are weak

[glowpipe]

Or do 2 target cleave or do 3 target cleave or burst down an add or need some CD to soak. Out of the 10 fight in NH only 2 of them are not really fit for sin... And they both can be dealt with by playing outlaw or sub...

This tread is amazing in it's on way... People playing what is probably one of the best classes in NH right now and a very very strong classes in M+ QQing...
Yeah we are not furry/arms warrior but that's probably not a bad thing as they are just fucking broken right now.

How exactly are they a very very strong class for mythic + ? No aoe stun. assassin got good st dmg, but insane rng aoe. Outlaw got good aoe, but not great st unless rngesus smiles to you.

Now take a dh for example. Aoe stun. Good on demand aoe burst. More or less same st as assassin. Why bring a rogue over a DH ?
not saying you are wrong, but i really wanna know why rogues are so very very strong in m+ ?

Looking at wowprogress. There is a severe lack of rogues in the 17+ runs. There is like 2 in like 50 of the top clears. Why is that if they are so good ? Again. Not trying to prove you wrong. I am curius to what makes rogues so sick in m+

[elfporn]

How exactly are they a very very strong class for mythic + ? No aoe stun. assassin got good st dmg, but insane rng aoe. Outlaw got good aoe, but not great st unless rngesus smiles to you.

Now take a dh for example. Aoe stun. Good on demand aoe burst. More or less same st as assassin. Why bring a rogue over a DH ?
not saying you are wrong, but i really wanna know why rogues are so very very strong in m+ ?

Looking at wowprogress. There is a severe lack of rogues in the 17+ runs. There is like 2 in like 50 of the top clears. Why is that if they are so good ? Again. Not trying to prove you wrong. I am curius to what makes rogues so sick in m+

survivability. utility. Sub is the strongest M+ rogue spec though - high ST and high AoE(properly built/talented)

[RobertoCarlos]

Pretty much each class has one of these types of threads at the moment, its silly.


Dk's complaining about UH and Blood
Monks complaining about not doing enough ST
Mages complaining about not doing enough ST
Warlocks complaining about doing not enough ST
Pallys complaining about Ret getting nerfs

You get the idea

[Aureli]

Dont post 75th percentile logs, its retarded.

Dont post dmg done to boss logs, its pointless. We are pretty much most common tunnel class. Its not because our ST is best and nobody cant beat us. Its because our aoe dmg is shit, same for switching and bursting, so if we dont tunnel we are really weak.

My guild is atm on aluriel. This fight is showing me how bad assa rog is. Ice adds is usually cleave, so as assa rog Im just nuking the big one. Then fire adds, i just chose one add that is going to die last and i single target him. Arcane adds = useless.
Its not like other bosses, you are useless go tunnel. Tunneling doesnt help there. You not gonna skip any phase or adds.

[Kalador]

How exactly are they a very very strong class for mythic + ? No aoe stun. assassin got good st dmg, but insane rng aoe. Outlaw got good aoe, but not great st unless rngesus smiles to you.

Now take a dh for example. Aoe stun. Good on demand aoe burst. More or less same st as assassin. Why bring a rogue over a DH ?
not saying you are wrong, but i really wanna know why rogues are so very very strong in m+ ?

Looking at wowprogress. There is a severe lack of rogues in the 17+ runs. There is like 2 in like 50 of the top clears. Why is that if they are so good ? Again. Not trying to prove you wrong. I am curius to what makes rogues so sick in m+

Sin can do very good in almost every situation except big AoE low life target, run with alacrity if fortified or AP if tyrannical, and usE subterfuge. Sub as insane burst AoE, strong ST and good 2-3 target cleave with best ST prio in AoE situation in the game. outlaw as insane AoE with good MFD usage, yes for ST you need the good legendary but if it's a fortified week no one care about your ST...

Add on top of that some insanely good utility:
-10 to 15% dmg increase from everyone for 5-6 sec on prio target with the good talent (something that is really looked over these days)
-INSANE survivability, this can be translated into more dmg from healer
-Shroud of Concealment, probably the best spell in M+, opening new route option, allowing you to skip group while keeping pot usage, if people don't think about it because it was added later in the expac, show them how good it is, in WoD shroud was insanely useful in almost every challenge mode, this tier if people don't think about rogue as shroud provider it's because half of them don't even know it's back // they don't know M+ route with it.
-tricks of the trade is also very useful for weeks with skittish

yeah DH and a couple of other class might have better burst than rogue or provide a tiny bit more AoE, yes in M+ 20-25 you are not going to see a lot of them, because pure OP/broken AoE class will dominate those level, but who cares about 20+, if you run normal M+ up to 17ish rogue is very very strong...

[Deleted]

Dont post 75th percentile logs, its retarded.

Dont post dmg done to boss logs, its pointless. We are pretty much most common tunnel class. Its not because our ST is best and nobody cant beat us. Its because our aoe dmg is shit, same for switching and bursting, so if we dont tunnel we are really weak.

My guild is atm on aluriel. This fight is showing me how bad assa rog is. Ice adds is usually cleave, so as assa rog Im just nuking the big one. Then fire adds, i just chose one add that is going to die last and i single target him. Arcane adds = useless.
Its not like other bosses, you are useless go tunnel. Tunneling doesnt help there. You not gonna skip any phase or adds.

Assa rogue is extremely powerful. I sense a dose of git gud is right up your alley.

[elfporn]

Dont post 75th percentile logs, its retarded.

Dont post dmg done to boss logs, its pointless. We are pretty much most common tunnel class. Its not because our ST is best and nobody cant beat us. Its because our aoe dmg is shit, same for switching and bursting, so if we dont tunnel we are really weak.

My guild is atm on aluriel. This fight is showing me how bad assa rog is. Ice adds is usually cleave, so as assa rog Im just nuking the big one. Then fire adds, i just chose one add that is going to die last and i single target him. Arcane adds = useless.
Its not like other bosses, you are useless go tunnel. Tunneling doesnt help there. You not gonna skip any phase or adds.

This is why we decided to mainspec sub after the first outlaw nerf. At the time sub was top with boots, we had no legendaries, an after weighing options and talking with raid leader, we decided the more versatile spec was best in the long run. And it has been - right now we can compete with dh, fury, and fire on aoe, depending on TTL for targets, as well as ST

Also, what kalador said.

[shaunika123]

Dont post 75th percentile logs, its retarded.

Dont post dmg done to boss logs, its pointless. We are pretty much most common tunnel class. Its not because our ST is best and nobody cant beat us. Its because our aoe dmg is shit, same for switching and bursting, so if we dont tunnel we are really weak.

My guild is atm on aluriel. This fight is showing me how bad assa rog is. Ice adds is usually cleave, so as assa rog Im just nuking the big one. Then fire adds, i just chose one add that is going to die last and i single target him. Arcane adds = useless.
Its not like other bosses, you are useless go tunnel. Tunneling doesnt help there. You not gonna skip any phase or adds.

i dont know, my guild specifically made me go assa from sub on aluriel and she dropped a few tries later
you need to kill the boss too, i went down by like 100-150k dps overall but my boss dmg went up by 50-60 mil

your RL just needs to know which class is good for what
just because you dont pad your ass off doesnt mean you doubling everyone else's ST dmg is not a good thing

most bosses in mythic NH are mostly about tunneling priority targets/the boss down and assa is great for that

7/10 mythic atm
the only boss on which i didnt just tunnel my ass off was skorpyron, and that's it, yes if we didnt have 4 fire mages in our comp i probably wouldve had to swap to an AOE spec for aluriel too, but that doesnt mean my assa wasnt useful, there's still a pretty tight enrage timer to beat

[elfporn]

i dont know, my guild specifically made me go assa from sub on aluriel and she dropped a few tries later
you need to kill the boss too, i went down by like 100-150k dps overall but my boss dmg went up by 50-60 mil

your RL just needs to know which class is good for what
just because you dont pad your ass off doesnt mean you doubling everyone else's ST dmg is not a good thing

most bosses in mythic NH are mostly about tunneling priority targets/the boss down and assa is great for that

7/10 mythic atm
the only boss on which i didnt just tunnel my ass off was skorpyron, and that's it, yes if we didnt have 4 fire mages in our comp i probably wouldve had to swap to an AOE spec for aluriel too, but that doesnt mean my assa wasnt useful, there's still a pretty tight enrage timer to beat

Damn...4 fire mages, well it's no wonder lol

Our comp is a bit less heavy on the OP aoe side, we have a DH and a fire mage, after that it's a FFA.

[Aureli]

So assa is tunnel or reroll, even our tier bonus works this way...

[ymirsson]

So assa is tunnel or reroll, even our tier bonus works this way...

Where is the problem with having a purpose? But it speaks volumes that you reduce the tier bonus to assassination spec.

[DakonBlackblade]

So assa is tunnel or reroll, even our tier bonus works this way...

If your Rl is dumb enought to have the sin rogue running around switching targets non stop then he does not deserve having a sin rogue in his roster/doe snot understand the game/is not fit for RLing.

Sin rogues kill the boss while ppl are busy doing every other thing, having 2-3 of them melting the boss can make an encounter significantly easier as bosses actualy die much faster when you properly compartmentalize the raid DPS, the raid does not need to DPS in a block, if adds are up everyone DPS, thats not how it works, your raid should learn how to use its DPS effectively.

[Deleted]

What is this thread trying to tell us? You are trying to tell us that rogues are bad because of only one true AoE encounter in the whole instance? Yes, it is only aluriel which requires hard AoE burst and usually, if your team knows what to do, you have 3-4 slots for tunnel classes at the boss. If you have issues with the burst, even an assa rogue can improve its AoE dps a little bit (alacrity build, leg cloak, leg trinket, non-leg aoe burst trinket, intelligent usage of your leg shoulders etc.). I for myself know a lot of groups which are stacking so many AoE classes and wiping due to the enrage timer at 10-20% boss hp but all of the dps have 900k+ dps.

Tunnel classes are extremely important in the second half of NH. If you want to face guldan without any big delay, you should gear and stack as much tunnel dps as possible. Krosus, Bota, Tichondrius, Star Augur, Elisande and Guldan are 80-100% single- or focus-target fights, AoE is a really small part in this fights.

Rogues are insane for progression due to their pretty hard single target tunnel dps, what shortens the fight drastically (or rather makes it possible to kill the boss before enrage) and their extreme survivability. The longer the fight duration, the stronger the rogue (all the hard fights lasts 8-15min in NH mythic). No one cares for 2min farmcontent.

[mooncalf78]

Dont post 75th percentile logs, its retarded.

Dont post dmg done to boss logs, its pointless. We are pretty much most common tunnel class. Its not because our ST is best and nobody cant beat us. Its because our aoe dmg is shit, same for switching and bursting, so if we dont tunnel we are really weak.

My guild is atm on aluriel. This fight is showing me how bad assa rog is. Ice adds is usually cleave, so as assa rog Im just nuking the big one. Then fire adds, i just chose one add that is going to die last and i single target him. Arcane adds = useless.
Its not like other bosses, you are useless go tunnel. Tunneling doesnt help there. You not gonna skip any phase or adds.

You evidently don't know how to deal AOE dmg with sin. On Aluriel you should switch to Alacrity and DP. You should spread and keep ruptures to 3-4 targets + poisons, the rest spend with evenom to fish for PB. You can test it in your class hall on dummies. If you spread ruptures and spam FoK you can easily do 800+ kdps (890 ilvl) even without PB. Similarly do the same with fire elementals. Even if they are not stacked (HC+) multirupture all you can. FoK has pretty large range, almost twice as big as animation shows. Arcane adds are stacked and low healt, I ussually do 2-3 ruptures and then just spam FoK + envenom and hope for PB. I'm always in top 3 dpsers in my guild on this boss. Similarly you should do very well on Botanist, the only difference is that AP is probably stronger there because you switch to FoK only at phase 3. Anomally, Trillax, Krossus, Aluriel, Augur, Elissandre, Guldan - you should be in top 3 of similarly equiped ppl. The only two bosses where I'm not in top 3 are Skorpyron and Tichondrius, but I'm almost always top dpser for boss only damage - thing which is the most important for progress. On ST fights like Krossus and Trilax I feel like maybe too OP as the second dpser is like 50-100 kdps below me.

The same is true for mc+. Yestarday I run VotW +15 as sin and I was top dpser overall. For lower mc+ and WQ I switch to Outlaw (35 AP lvl). I'm pretty happy with rogues right now.