Is it Time to Change the 14 Amendment?

[Bighud44]

The only part that I can see that contradicts anything I wrote is the claim regarding healthcare. Maybe you can elaborate there if I'm wrong?

The rest seems like a quibble about the compensation package, which doesn't contradict what I wrote at all. I don't know where you got the idea that civilians typically receive $150K+ and defined benefit pensions without having highly specialized skill sets, but that's pretty counterfactual. While there are some jobs that hit those salaries consistently, they generally require very advanced education/skills, far in excess of what most enlisted soldiers would typically have. These aren't comparable positions.

I don't doubt that it's a tough job that I wouldn't want to do and I wouldn't claim otherwise. Travel is fatiguing even when you're not going to carry heavy shit, get shot at, and deal with all sorts of other bullshit. I'm not in any way trying to impugn the work ethic or integrity of American soldiers. My only point in the post you quoted is that illegal aliens certainly don't receive better benefits than soldiers in any way - it's just a silly thing people say to highlight what they feel is unfair.

http://www.gijobs.com/military-pay-calculator/

this is my military pay and civilian in my area. Dont count the BAH because I do not receive it, not everyone does. SO my before taxes pay is a little over 60K before taxes and such, after taxes and such I make a tad over 40k because I am single and pay more in taxes. A civilians pay is around 120k in my area, and that doesnt include overtime. Its a 40hr week, which I do not do.

My pay is based on a 40 hour week is about $28 an hour. VERY low with someone who has 23 years experience and an advanced degree in my field. Enlisted solders aren't that far behind officers in education and training, in most instances we have more.

I logged a full years hours in 2014. I logged 4696 hours of work for that year. This worked out to be around $12.75 per hour. If you take a civilian counter part, they made $57+ an hour for a 40 hour week. Now if they worked what I did, and got time and a half for overtime, its well over 150k, actually over 200k...Now some are on salary, and the ones that are DONT and cant work more than an allotted time. In those instances, they are given bonuses + per-dium.

And yes illegal aliens do get better care. You see if a retired person needs care and cant afford the TRICARE Prime fees, they have to travel to a VA hospital and wait, sometimes 3-6 months, for care. An illegal alien only has to go to a hospital and they are seen. If I go to a hospital without permission, or if there is a VA place for me to go but I dont, my retirement can be garnished to pay for it.

[Blur4stuff]

i'll trade you the 14th for abolishing the EC

[Belenath]

Pretty delayed reply. Regardless, I said it was free for the vet. Not the family. I also didn't say it was good healthcare or convenient. It's definitely not and it could be improved. But acting like we don't do a shit ton for our vets is ridiculous.

We're focusing way too much on hyperbolic statements here. Do our veterans have benefits? Yes. Could we do more for them? Absolutely. Should we do more for them? I think we should. I think the people that are truly arguing for improvements to veterans benefits aren't truly arguing that nothing is done, but instead are arguing that we could do more.

However, that argument isn't especially applicable to this thread. Waving a magic wand and removing spending on illegal immigrants would not give us the funds to take better care of our veterans. We could probably look into re-allocating some of our military spending and instead shift it towards veterans benefits.

Edit: I also figured I should add a caveat that people arguing in favor of amnesty and other solutions to illegal immigration are not saying that we should take all the money from veterans and give it to the illegals. Both sides should stop treating people that don't have the same beliefs as the antithesis to your existence and instead try to find some common ground.

[Belenath]

The 14th Amendment is part of American exceptionalism. It's one of those things that are distinct to the US setting it apart from the rest of the West (jus soli is almost entirely unique to the Americas). To abolish jus soli is to admit that USA is no longer exceptional.

I can't even begin to dissect this statement. It certainly doesn't contribute to the argument for/against keeping the 14th Amendment in its current state. Are you perhaps trying to guilt trip people into thinking your way? Exceptionalism is an interesting word though. It doesn't always have to mean good.

[GreenJesus]

Not only illegals, but there are Saudis that bring dozens of elderly in to live in their mansions in Pelican Hill, Orange County and they collect their social security. Pure abuse in our system.

[cubby]

Two illegal immigrants can violate our border laws, then crank out children and exploit them for welfare. Which they often do because they cannot survive on their rock bottom wages. The American tax payer takes up the slack.

You mean people come to our country and want to have a better life for their children? Holy fuck! Can we use tanks on them?

Grow up - this is such a clickbait threat post it's beyond even humorous.

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Honestly, if all benefits were taken away from illegal immigrants, they would head back for the border. Meaning, they would have to prove they are a citizen before they can claim any sort of tax-payer money, regardless if they have children or not born on US soil.

Bash me if you like, but I feel like we should be taking care of our veterans first, especially if they are homeless, before any illegal immigrant. Our system is incredibly flawed.

How about we do both - bash you and take care of vets? J/k - seriously, this isn't a zero sum game - we can do both. We can actually do a lot more than both as soon as people stop believing the lies of the GOP.

Who do you think keeps cutting education? And social services - including vet benefits? The GOP.

[Saiona]

Should have automated Lazer drones on our new wall

[Bighud44]

Pretty delayed reply. Regardless, I said it was free for the vet. Not the family. I also didn't say it was good healthcare or convenient. It's definitely not and it could be improved. But acting like we don't do a shit ton for our vets is ridiculous.

Sorry I dont sit on MMO waiting for you to respond.

Again it ISNT free for all vets...And the care that is free for VETS who cant afford it IS SHIT. Have you not seen what has been going on at VA's hospitals for what THE LAST 10 FREAKING YEARS????? But of course spew your liberal nonsense so you can scream for health care is a RIGHT argument and that illegals should get it to.

[Thereaperszone]

"Welfare" and "healthcare" aren't programs.


They're American citizens

And they shouldn't be it needs to be changed and boot them look at California how much is spent on them.