Is it Time to Change the 14 Amendment?

[artemishunter1]

Wow, people are arguing to repeal the 14th amendment now? That's a scary thought; good thing hell would freeze over before 50 states agreed on removing it from the constitution.

two thirds i believe is needed.

[Damajin]

As Ron Paul recently said:

Remove the welfare magnet that attracts so many to cross the border illegally, stop the 25 year US war in the Middle East, and end the drug war that incentivizes smugglers to cross the border.

[Shadowferal]

two thirds i believe is needed.

Super-majorities in bothe House and Senate or a Constitutional Convention where it would get hashed out.

Which means it's still a "Hell would freeze over" moment.

[artemishunter1]

Of course we shouldn't touch the 14th Amendment, it has become the epitome of what it means to be free and equal in this country. If you don't like illegals being on welfare, then you have a welfare problem, not a 14th Amendment problem. Honestly, it seems like the hatred for the 14trh Amendment is based more off of bigotry and xenophobia, than anything else.

why is xenophobia bad? There are GOOD reason to be xenophobic. People should not exist to subsidize another race, which is currently the case. Third and fourth generation of some races still remain welfare users and underperformers, such as mexicans. ALL minority races are parasitic relationship with the White race in the U.S.. While many immigrant races are earning their upkeep, majority of every other race are in welfare.

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That is not how the world was back then. Europeans had well-established rules of diplomacy by that time and mostly stuck by those rules when dealing with each other, they just conveniently decided that these didn't really apply when dealing with savages. Let's not pretend that white people somehow took over the continent through feats of arms, it was mostly a matter of broken promises and backstabbing, with a major assist from smallpox, that sealed it.

that is LIBERAL revision of history. Breaking treaties were done ALSO by native tribes. It was over 100 year period, white people are not the only bad guy here. Breaking treaties and attacking civilian settlement lead to many pogoms. Settlements that were not even in the native's territory, but simply due to expanisionist ideas of some tribes. Small Pox was accident, they did not know about germs.

[Machismo]

why is xenophobia bad? There are GOOD reason to be xenophobic. People should not exist to subsidize another race, which is currently the case. Third and fourth generation of some races still remain welfare users and underperformers, such as mexicans. ALL minority races are parasitic relationship with the White race in the U.S.. While many immigrant races are earning their upkeep, majority of every other race are in welfare.

I never said anything about supporting someone else. I have no desire to support others, that doesn't mean I'm going to try and stop them from living their lives. If you don't like that people are on welfare, then get rid of welfare. As for your statement about ALL minority races being parasites, I'm going to have to ask for some evidence to back up that claim.

Of course, your comment screams of racism, so I'm really not going to bother too much with it.

[artemishunter1]

Yeah, because equality under the law is a terrible thing...

Everyone is equal under the laws, WITHOUT the fourteen amendments. Its purpose is LONG dead. Its designed to give SLAVES citizenship when in the past citizenship had to be EARNED through property owership and most white people were not citizens. We don't have slave anymore, if you worried replace it with we are all equal under teh law amendment.

[Tikaru]

why is xenophobia bad? There are GOOD reason to be xenophobic. People should not exist to subsidize another race, which is currently the case. Third and fourth generation of some races still remain welfare users and underperformers, such as mexicans. ALL minority races are parasitic relationship with the White race in the U.S.. While many immigrant races are earning their upkeep, majority of every other race are in welfare.

Wow. Just, wow.

If anyone should "get out", it's disgusting racists like you.

[primalmatter]

Maybe? It is hard to say as even I find it hard to punish children.

Happy middle ground here might be to deport the parents and place the children with the state.

[Macaquerie]

Yes, I think the time has come for some revisions. Jus soli is a perfectly fine principle when you can rely on almost everyone in your nation being there legally and not exploiting the benefit granted by jus soli, but breaks down when the incentives are as strong as they are in a nation with an extremely "generous" welfare state. When the benefits are this large, you're bound to wind up with many people that exploit the system.

A simple revision to account for legal status of the parents (not citizenship - we don't want to create second generation people that are second class citizens or non-citizens) would be fairly straightforward to write and implement. This is only controversial insomuch as radical open borders ideology is the modern political center.

Creating a permanent non-citizen class is exactly what changing the 14th amendment would do. Presumably a child born to illegal immigrants would also be considered an illegal immigrant, and because changing the law won't make any of them leave, they would also grow up and have children who would then in turn be considered illegal immigrants. And of course, because none of these people would have citizenship anywhere else, we'd essentially be creating millions of stateless refugees as well. This kind of bullshit is exactly why the 14th amendment was worded in plain and unambiguous language, and why it should under no circumstances be changed.

[Machismo]

why is xenophobia bad? There are GOOD reason to be xenophobic. People should not exist to subsidize another race, which is currently the case. Third and fourth generation of some races still remain welfare users and underperformers, such as mexicans. ALL minority races are parasitic relationship with the White race in the U.S.. While many immigrant races are earning their upkeep, majority of every other race are in welfare.

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that is LIBERAL revision of history. Breaking treaties were done ALSO by native tribes. It was over 100 year period, white people are not the only bad guy here. Breaking treaties and attacking civilian settlement lead to many pogoms. Settlements that were not even in the native's territory, but simply due to expanisionist ideas of some tribes. Small Pox was accident, they did not know about germs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native...native_peoples

It would appear that it was done on purpose.

[primalmatter]

Wow. Just, wow.

If anyone should "get out", it's disgusting racists like you.

He might not be a person you like but can you refute his claim? Immigration is not a winning deal for the states ignoring the race issue in his argument he has a point even if it is being made in the worst way.

[Machismo]

Everyone is equal under the laws, WITHOUT the fourteen amendments. Its purpose is LONG dead. Its designed to give SLAVES citizenship when in the past citizenship had to be EARNED through property owership and most white people were not citizens. We don't have slave anymore, if you worried replace it with we are all equal under teh law amendment.

The 14th Amendment guarantees that right. Without the 14th, then we would have no equal protection under the law. That is quite literally where it came from.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxiv

[artemishunter1]

Exactly, which is why I suggested that the Basic Law that Hong Kong uses is the best example.

In all honesty I find the 14th Amendment as an excuse by the USA to not have proper immigration laws. Instead of a solid and approachable system of legal citizenship, you have anchor babies in order to both have the illegal immigrants you need to drive your economy and deprive these parents the rights of citizenship even though we are largely talking about people that have both a permanent residence and employment.
A better way to citizenship is a far cleaner way to handle immigration than what the 14th Amendment does. Republicans should love the 14th Amendment it keeps the parents of those children from actually being legal and voting citizens cause if it didn't exist, a better way to citizenship would have to replace it.

we don't NEED illigal immigrants to drive our economy. we have automation for that. You have to understand even with approchable system won't help those that are being denied currently. They are too poor, too unskilled. Their existance is to be on welfare and carryout manual labor. They can't pay for their retirement or any welfare simply because they have no marketable skill to earn enough money to even live here with paying tax. We should have honest discussion about our illigal population but you refuse to have them because you feel bad hurting their feelings.

[Tikaru]

He might not be a person you like but can you refute his claim? Immigration is not a winning deal for the states ignoring the race issue in his argument he has a point even if it is being made in the worst way.

Refute his claim? He doesn't back up his racist claim with anything. Neither did you.

Also, you feel that Mexicans are a drain on our society, so you want to deport the parents and put the children with the state? So, you're against paying for people, so your solution is to ruin children's lives and pay for people?

[artemishunter1]

The 14th Amendment guarantees that right. Without the 14th, then we would have no equal protection under the law. That is quite literally where it came from.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxiv

it comes from bill of rights, not the 14th amendment. All Man got interpreted as All ManKind. 14th Made the Slaves have the same rights as freeman for the time.

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Refute his claim? He doesn't back up his racist claim with anything. Neither did you.

Also, you feel that Mexicans are a drain on our society, so you want to deport the parents and put the children with the state? So, you're against paying for people, so your solution is to ruin children's lives and pay for people?

without the 14th, we can deport the parents and the children and not ruin anyone life.

[primalmatter]

Refute his claim? He doesn't back up his racist claim with anything. Neither did you.

Also, you feel that Mexicans are a drain on our society, so you want to deport the parents and put the children with the state? So, you're against paying for people, so your solution is to ruin children's lives and pay for people?

You remove the incentive for breaking the law. The parents should be permanently denied entry into the states but the children are innocent we should do the best we can for them.

[Machismo]

we don't NEED illigal immigrants to drive our economy. we have automation for that. You have to understand even with approchable system won't help those that are being denied currently. They are too poor, too unskilled. Their existance is to be on welfare and carryout manual labor. They can't pay for their retirement or any welfare simply because they have no marketable skill to earn enough money to even live here with paying tax. We should have honest discussion about our illigal population but you refuse to have them because you feel bad hurting their feelings.

You have been dishonest for the entire page. I'm still waiting for proof that ALL minority races are parasites on white people in this country.

[Tikaru]

it comes from bill of rights, not the 14th amendment. All Man got interpreted as All ManKind. 14th Made the Slaves have the same rights as freeman for the time.

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without the 14th, we can deport the parents and the children and not ruin anyone life.

I don't think we should let knuckle-dragging racists be the reason to remove an amendment. Sorry.

[Machismo]

it comes from bill of rights, not the 14th amendment. All Man got interpreted as All ManKind. 14th Made the Slaves have the same rights as freeman for the time.

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without the 14th, we can deport the parents and the children and not ruin anyone life.

No, it comes by way of the 14th Amendment of the United States.

I literally just posted it. It's called the Equal Protection Clause.

[artemishunter1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native...native_peoples

It would appear that it was done on purpose.

would appear is a weasel word, especially used by liberals to revise history. The first germ theory won't come 80 years later. They gave the blankets as gifts. It ended up that way. and liberals using this to guilt trip white people, to support their current selfdestructive policies.