1009 Maw of Souls runs needed to max out Artifact in 7.2

[IceMan1763]

Imagine you're a competitive chess player, but you're told that you can only have 4 pawns and no queen. To earn a queen and the other 4 pawns, you'll have to play 250 games of checkers.

So you do, and it stinks, and you complain about it, and someone says, "I dunno why you're making yourself miserable by grinding out checkers, it makes no sense."

Playing the D.A. here:

"But you're not the top 1% of chess players so you shouldn't care!"

(if you read my previous posts you'll see I actually completely agree with you)

[mage21]

Playing the D.A. here:

"But you're not the top 1% of chess players so you shouldn't care!"

(if you read my previous posts you'll see I actually completely agree with you)

I'd tell those people that reaching as high as you can is the whole point of competitive chess. If I'm not the top 1%, it's still immensely satisfying to be US Top 200.

I mean it's not the whole point, the thrill of the victory and the challenge is a big part.

[Dangg]

Several of our raiders called it quit citing AP farm/legendary RNG as the sole reason.

'small sample size'™ 'you're not forced to do it'™

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I cannot comprehend the mindset of people who max out their artifact weapon or grind for legendaries. You are only making your own life miserable.

Raiding as DPS (for some classes more than others) while being screwed by Legendary RNG is frustrating. No matter if you're World 1st or World 3000th.

[Temp name]

It doesnt make sense. TOP Guilds farmed their asses the whole xpac. Doing so, they were able to clear Mythic in 1 or 2 Weeks. You can split that grind from 1-2 weeks to 12-16 weeks. And you would still be able to clear mythic before next raid, and with the same AP that TOP guilds has in the 1st week of the raid (when they killed the last boss).

But if you need x damage, and the only way to get x damage is to get 54 traits, you can either sit on your ass for 3 months until people get it, or you can get off your ass and get it done in a week. Sure, you can kill the boss in 3 months, but no one will be happy in your guild doing literally fuck all for 3 months.

Example: I do 600k damage at 50 traits. The encounter requires me to do 610. I can either go out and farm 4 traits and do 612k, or I can just tell my guild that I'm a lazy bastard and I don't mind waiting a few weeks to get it. At this point, if I went with option b, I'd promptly be booted from just about any progression minded guild

[Shawken]

Raiding as DPS (for some classes more than others) while being screwed by Legendary RNG is frustrating. No matter if you're World 1st or World 3000th.

100% agree. I had only 2 legendaries I wanted to get on my resto druid alt and I got the rejuv shoulders. That plus knowing the next legendary is a long way away PLUS knowing the AP grind has just killed any interest to do anything on alts.

[Deleted]

Players: Blizzard, your game requires way too much grinding to be relevant in Mythic raiding. Could you perhaps tone it back a bit?

Blizzard: Good news! We're making it three times more grindy in 7.2! That's what you wanted, right? Right? Guys? Hello...?

Blizzard: Fuck. This always happens.

Blizzard:

hilarious lol

[Youn]

People do realize it will take 75 days to go from AK 25 to 40 right?

15 * 5days = 75 days.

So, assume you need about 1200 m+ dungeons in those 75 days. Or 16 a day... :P

[Deleted]

Or - you could just play the game, and let the AK system do the work for you

Which you can't without the AK. If I pick up a second specc right now, it will be extremly weak compared to my main specc. People who play a single class and a single specc are the ones who mostly don't care. Everyone else who for example heals/tanks finds themselves pigeonholed into either.

AK as of now, is a completely and utterly bullshit grind that does not account for people playing more than one specc or character.

[Azlo]

Blizzard doing an interesting experiment to see how much time people are willing to waste for a 0.5% increase in DPS. 2 hours? 10 hours? 100 hours?

Tbh I would have liked there to be no upper limit. Want to do another 2000 MOS for yet another 0.5% DPS? Go for it. After that you can grind another 4000 for the next 0.5%.

It's time blizzard stopped trying to "save players from themselves" and just let people do whatever.

The way they do that is to tune the content around a number that Blizzard is happy with.

For example, if mythic NH was tuned around 45 traits, and the WF guilds just destroyed it in 2 days, maybe people will be like "oh okay, I don't have to grind out 2000 MoS's for the max traits."

However, considering Star Augur needed to be 2-healed to meet the DPS check, and Krosus is being killed by world 250ish guilds right at the enrage with everyone at 54 traits, clearly Blizzard intended for everyone to be at 54.

[Deleted]

Raiding as DPS (for some classes more than others) while being screwed by Legendary RNG is frustrating. No matter if you're World 1st or World 3000th.

Yeah, that's the point.

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Imagine you're a competitive chess player, but you're told that you can only have 4 pawns and no queen. To earn a queen and the other 4 pawns, you'll have to play 250 games of checkers.

So you do, and it stinks, and you complain about it, and someone says, "I dunno why you're making yourself miserable by grinding out checkers, it makes no sense."

Then don't do it? I have absolutely 0 sympathy for anyone doing "competitive gaming".

Why should the game be balanced about the 0,001% of you?

Legendaries are fun to me. I have 4 different legendaries on 4 different characters, and while they aren't all the best ones, it was still awesome to get them and I love having them. I don't want that taken away just because some people have no life and grind the shit out of the game to get better legendaries just so they can partipate in some retarded race that doesn't matter.

Play the game for fun and not so you can boast about how you are world 29th in a fucking videogame.

[IceMan1763]

Yeah, that's the point.

The point of the legendary system is to be frustrating?

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Play the game for fun and not so you can boast about how you are world 29th in a fucking videogame.

So people who play the game for a challenge have to suffer because idiots like you are somehow not having fun unless you're getting welfare legendaries? You're not capable of having fun in the game without them? What does that say about you?

The reality is that the people who play the game for a challenge would prefer they were all erased from the game.

[Deleted]

The point of the legendary system is to be frustrating?

Are you playing dumb? I asked why put yourself through something that makes your life so miserable, he answered with "because it can be really frustrating".

So why do it if it's frustrating?

So people who play the game for a challenge have to suffer because idiots like you

Stopped reading there. Stop flaming, there is no need to insult me.

If you want a challenge you can have that. You don't need world rankings for that. The fights are gonna be just as hard, whether you have rankings or not. Rankings are just there for your epeen.

[Sierra85]

so many cry babies who want to max their artifact instantly.

just play the game. jesus.

[Deleted]

so many cry babies who want to max their artifact instantly.

just play the game. jesus.

Those are the people that rush to max level and then complain about having nothing to do.

[IceMan1763]

Stopped reading there. Stop flaming, there is no need to insult me.

If you want a challenge you can have that. You don't need world rankings for that. The fights are gonna be just as hard, whether you have rankings or not. Rankings are just there for your epeen.

Why not answer the question? Could you enjoy the game without legendaries? Because if the answer is Yes, then what's the point of throwing a gigantic monkey wrench into gearing at the highest level of play? If the answer is No, can I not use the "why not just play for fun?" argument you are using against players who want to be competitive (in some way or another) but aren't lucky enough to get the right legendary?

[Deleted]

Wow is not a game designed for highly competitive raiding. It is a game designed to encourage long grinding over short term quick reward.

The AP system is designed so you always get a reward that means something when gear no longer does. On those final levels the diminishing returns on direct farming are minimal. I do think they plan on increasing the amount you get base without the calculation of AK for new rewards so there's jump at least at the start and we don't know yet how high it is and how far it will take you.

The legendary system as is yough is by far the weakest part of the game and a big fuck up ob blizz's part.

[shonist]

But if you need x damage, and the only way to get x damage is to get 54 traits, you can either sit on your ass for 3 months until people get it, or you can get off your ass and get it done in a week. Sure, you can kill the boss in 3 months, but no one will be happy in your guild doing literally fuck all for 3 months.

Example: I do 600k damage at 50 traits. The encounter requires me to do 610. I can either go out and farm 4 traits and do 612k, or I can just tell my guild that I'm a lazy bastard and I don't mind waiting a few weeks to get it. At this point, if I went with option b, I'd promptly be booted from just about any progression minded guild

The only thing here is that you are still being wrong, if you dont have those 50 traits because you didnt farmed the hell out of it, you wont even have the ilvl to enter mythics and do that "600". and you are still wrong, you dont need the maximum traits for the content. Top guilds proved that stomping on bosses 1st day.
get off the pony of the 1st world in your grindy casual guild.

[Evangeliste]

Ok let me point something out. Mythic+ aren't going to be the only way to max out?
And how long does it take to do a +6 really? let's say an average of 15 minutes? After multiplying it by 1009 runs, that's 15135 minutes so 252 and a half hours which if you breakdown to 12 hours say if you're a dedicated player... That can be done in 21 days.

I'm sorry but 21 days or 4 weeks doesn't seem to exactly surprise or enrage me at an amazing time-length. Why? Because for the double legendary equip alone it takes 14 days to complete, you wait every week for a raid reset. Some people farmed years for the same mount with a fixed droprate. Yes you're not going to be max-level AK in a shot but your calaculations are for -all- 54 traits , 0-54 when 7.2 hits, who is going to be 0? By default yes a new alt, but most people should have 15 AK for alts, by then it could even be higher when you get round to doing an alt diligently. Your most important character will have time spent to at least ramp up a good effort on your artifact to 54. If you're 46/54 when 7.2 hits the lovely spreadsheet is then inconclusive.
Besides you're not going to solely spend time in mythics+ are you? You have, raids, pvp, world quests, honor system, emissary quests, there is a few to mention to help you. When you raid, to which now there is EN, TOV, NH with LFR, Normal, Heroic and for the better folks Mythic. Sure they don't grant it as quickly - maybe some like a world quest to kill a world boss for 187,000 AP at AK 25. At 40, it will be considerably more. Everywhere.
I'm not sure why people are baffled or confused at a change. If you dislike it then that's how it goes, you pay Blizzard sub and things aren't going to go your way as you don't dev it, only sure way is to boycott their design or try and get 54 before 7.2 which at this rate is in not happening till end of March when all wings of NH for LFR are released. Even then, you have to consider things like pvp seasons.

Plenty of time if you want to run 992 MoS which by the same calculations above for 12 hours a day... is only 20 days. So one day difference if you want to go crazy on the runs. At the end, its down to the player on their progression and how manic they want to go. But 17 runs isn't that much, I could be amazed if it was 171 sure.

[Deleted]

The only thing here is that you are still being wrong, if you dont have those 50 traits because you didnt farmed the hell out of it, you wont even have the ilvl to enter mythics and do that "600". and you are still wrong, you dont need the maximum traits for the content. Top guilds proved that stomping on bosses 1st day.
get off the pony of the 1st world in your grindy casual guild.

for Nh you need max traits, look at star augur, guldan elisande, krosus, the top guilds needed 54 traits and 2heal to make dps check on augur so you do need it.

[IceMan1763]

Ok let me point something out. Mythic+ aren't going to be the only way to max out?
And how long does it take to do a +6 really? let's say an average of 15 minutes? After multiplying it by 1009 runs, that's 15135 minutes so 252 and a half hours which if you breakdown to 12 hours say if you're a dedicated player... That can be done in 21 days.

I'm sorry but 21 days or 4 weeks doesn't seem to exactly surprise or enrage me at an amazing time-length. Why? Because for the double legendary equip alone it takes 14 days to complete, you wait every week for a raid reset. Some people farmed years for the same mount with a fixed droprate. Yes you're not going to be max-level AK in a shot but your calaculations are for -all- 54 traits , 0-54 when 7.2 hits, who is going to be 0? By default yes a new alt, but most people should have 15 AK for alts, by then it could even be higher when you get round to doing an alt diligently. Your most important character will have time spent to at least ramp up a good effort on your artifact to 54. Besides you're not going to solely spend time in mythics+ are you? You have, raids, pvp, world quests, honor system, emissary quests, there is a few to mention to help you. When you raid, to which now there is EN, TOV, NH with LFR, Normal, Heroic and for the better folks Mythic. Sure they don't grant it as quickly - maybe some like a world quest to kill a world boss for 187,000 AP at AK 25. At 40, it will be considerably more. Everywhere.
I'm not sure why people are baffled or confused at a change. If you dislike it then that's how it goes, you pay Blizzard sub and things aren't going to go your way as you don't dev it, only sure way is to boycott their design or try and get 54 before 7.2 which at this rate is in not happening till end of March when all wings of NH for LFR are released. Even then, you have to consider things like pvp seasons.

Plenty of time if you want to run 992 MoS which by the same calculations above for 12 hours a day... is only 20 days. So one day difference if you want to go crazy on the runs. At the end, its down to the player on their progression and how manic they want to go. But 17 runs isn't that much, I could be amazed if it was 171 sure.

I think you're missing the point... what is the purpose of the grind? What does it prove? Does it take actual skill? Does it make the game more enjoyable for the high end or even the average player? Is it adding content or just adding a system that promotes grinding for some unstated purpose (obviously a lame attempt at sub retention) on Blizzard's end?