Why are you pro-choice?

[Total Crica]

Why am I pro-choice in the USA : Because outlawing abortion is the alternative which leads to :

1) Females being seen by society as nothing more then incubators that can simply be raped when males would like a child if females don't have the option to abort a product of rape.

2) An explosive increase in the number of unwanted children forced into an already over-loaded foster care system that lacks proper resources to take care of existing unwanted children.

3) An explosive increase in illegal abortions, including ones that potentially endanger the life of the mother and ones that are particularly inhumane, because of the desperation of females who were raped, don't feel ready to be a mother or coerced by others to abort.

4) An explosive increase in birth defects (a pregnant female who is compelled only by law and not by her own will to give birth is almost certainly not going to take the proper steps necessary to ensure a healthy child).

5) An explosive increase in the number of single/extremely young mothers which in turn leads to higher rates of death (pregnant female is so young she can't bear the pregnancy), suicide, crime, welfare dependency, aggressive tendencies in their children, child abuse of unwanted children, etc.

6) An explosive increase in the number of false rape accusations, particularly if rape cases are exempt and treated as exceptional cases where abortion is allowed.

7) An explosive increase in poor pregnant females dying from complications because they couldn't afford healthcare during pregnancy.

I'm against these negative consequences on society more than I'm against early-term abortion. As a result, I'm against criminalizing abortion. I'm totally in favor of encouraging people to be smarter about who they sleep with and how, including making it easier for us to adopt children born from females unwilling or incapable of raising them. That's very different from having our government force females at gunpoint who are unwilling/incapable of bearing a child to have the child anyway.

The ideal scenario pro-lifers seem to imagine is this utopia where children are running around happy, where some baby who might have formerly been considered for abortion finds a cure for cancer or something like that. The reality is that criminalizing abortion is simply forcing a large number of females to bear a child regardless if any of the above circumstances are in play. If I genuinely believed it was a recipe for happy and productive lives, I'd be pro-life, but reality strongly suggests that it's a recipe for human suffering, for the females forced to give birth and the unwanted children and the society that must witness and bear the burden of this.

[Dezerte]

Bodily autonomy.

[bladeXcrasher]

Because limiting someones personal choice based on feels is retarded, thats why.

[Elba]

Bodily autonomy.

This. All other arguments are irrelevant. It does not matter whether the fetus is alive, a person, a human, has a heart beat, is conscience, feels pain, has a soul or anything else.

As long as it resides within the woman's uterus she has the right to expel it.

[Deleted]

there's some sea creatures whose sexual organs are autonomous. hypothetically, if penis has it's mind of its own (little worm), and goes outside hunting females and pregnating them... should owner of the penis pay alimony or penis itself should go to work later?

[Jyggalag]

Because I received proper education.

Where's the up-vote button again?

[Flarelaine]

Because choice is freedom.

[tankbug]

1. I don't consider a parasitic lump of cells, incapable of thought, a human being.
2. I value the life of the woman more than her fetus.
3. I don't try to use "the sanctity of life" as a stupid excuse to force women into: a) be babymachines and stay at home, b) "staying pure".
4. I understand that it's possible to get pregnant by mistake, even if measures are taken.

This is a huge problem in the US and many non-western countries:
Conservative man logic - "Women get defiled by having sex, and should limit it to making babies for their husbond.....except if they're fucking me".

[Fiftyonred]

Basic education combined with simple logic. I am an atheist as well.

Do you also do crossfit?

[Deleted]

Because it's shitty to force women to be pregnant against their will. Plus I wouldn't want a kid myself.

[rogueMatthias]

This. All other arguments are irrelevant. It does not matter whether the fetus is alive, a person, a human, has a heart beat, is conscience, feels pain, has a soul or anything else.

As long as it resides within the woman's uterus she has the right to expel it.

So if she's 8 1/2 months along, but gets bored and decides she doesn't want it anymore, it's ok for her to abort still, as it should be her "right" to her own autonomy?

[Deleted]

So if she's 8 1/2 months along, but gets bored and decides she doesn't want it anymore, it's ok for her to abort still, as it should be her "right" to her own autonomy?

You can't abort at that time, all you can do is induce labor or do a c-section.

[Mormolyce]

The state has no legitimate interest in the bodies of its citizens.

Period.

[Shadowferal]

Because she should make her own decision whether to go "left" or "right."

[Fencers]

Personal freedom, economic, self awareness, safety.

[Miow]

Because a woman's body is her owns.
Not the states', nor the belonging of those against abortions.

[Machismo]

I support the freedom for an individual to do whatever the fuck he or she wants to do with his or her own body. Now, I personally believe that most women who get abortions are doing it because they are selfish and irresponsible, but it is still their bodies. I'm allowed to judge the character of a person, yet still believe they are free to act in such a manner. Unlike most people, I don't want to ban something simply because I do not like it.

[Caifas]

Point 1 - Not being a crime - Unwanted pregnancies are a matter of public health and it is a social issue. It is not, however, a criminal issue. We call the criminal justice system as the ultima ratio, that is, the last resort. If we want less abortions, we must handle the situation by adressing the reasons behind unwated pregnancy, be it a lack of education on the matter of sex, lack of access to birth control, social stigmas etc. Lawsuits and jail time are not the answer.

Point 2 - Abortions beind condoned by the stat - That is, the state itself offering abortions as a medical service. We enter then in some of the points you made: And unwanted pregnacy can disrupt the life and opportunities of a family, specially the mother, when they are of a lower social standing. Also, abortions are something that have always happened and we'd rather let it happen legally. Women with money can have abbortions without problems, most of the times, so the burden of the lack of this service befalls mostly on the poor. The state is in the best position to offer aid to women in situations where they don't have access to healthcare and are in no position to care for a child.

Point 3 - Abortions and morality - The argument ends up being the woman's right for freedom and the fetus's right for life. In abstract, both rights are considered fundamental rights. However, it must be pointed out that no right is absolute; When fundamental rights clash, they must be weighted and measured in order to decide what should be done. On that mentality, I believe that the advantages for society as whole in guaranteeing freedom of choice for women to manage their own body is superior to the benefit of granting life to an unwanted child. Ideally, no abortions would ever happen, but unwanted pregnancies are a reality that must be handled, and legal abortions are the safest, fastest and cheapest way to handle it. The well being of a full fledged human being should be prioritized over that of a potential one.

Which brings me to an interesting point (which is a complete tanget) - if the fetus should have the right of life. Now, in every country where abortion is a crime, it does, that is not up for discussion. And even if abortion was legal, it might still have, in accordance to my previous reasoning over fundamental rights. However, the question that is proposed is: Are fetuses people? People have rights, over all other forms of life. It is undeniable that fetuses are life forms, however, before their nervous system is finished, they may be less sentient than an average lobster. So, are they people or potential people. And so, do they have rights or the expectative or rights? If you force an abortion should you be charged of murder or assault against the woman? Or another crime altogether. Some interesting questions here.

[Mormolyce]

So if she's 8 1/2 months along, but gets bored and decides she doesn't want it anymore, it's ok for her to abort still, as it should be her "right" to her own autonomy?

A vanishingly small proportion of abortions are performed after the first trimester.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion

So given how rare it is, and how likely I consider it is for a mother to abort because "she gets bored" (give me a fucking break), I have no qualms about supporting such a ridiculous edge case.

P.S. I like this way random assholes on the internet like to imply that the mother has a completely callous attitude where she decides to abort for funsies. You see there's this thing called a maternal instinct that's likely driving the mother's behaviour, and the Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory driving the behaviour of random posters on the internet. I know who I'd trust.

[Shadowferal]

This thread is going well because the americans are still sleeping.

This American is sneaking about...