Would an AP cap each week work?

[Tojara]

I'm sort of split on this, and honestly it doesn't really effect me either way. The way my guild raids, and the way I play the game, getting to 54 traits for Mythic raiding progression really isn't that difficult. Looking forward, it looks a bit more daunting though, especially if they keep going with the 'endless' trait thing that currently appears on the PTR.

To preface, I actually think AP and the ability to always have something worthwhile to do is actually pretty positive for the game. Realistically, the only people this hurts a lot is those who are already going above and beyond. Essentially those that do split runs, have raid ready alts, want to grind our legendary items for their 'mains' in addition to getting reasonable amount of AP for them. This system, really doesn't hurt the majority of the player base because for them, I imagine just having something to gain feels good each week. When you start running out of things to do or you aren't seeing power increases (whether they be large or small), generally, I start seeing people play other games. This is why you see so many people at the start of an expansion, and you see jumps in activity during each major patch.

The reason I would ask for a cap isn't really to make it less strenuous on myself, but for other classes, especially those who have multiple DPS specs within the same class. Those very specializations that differ so much between encounters that one might be substantially worse than the other for any individual encounter. For me it doesn't matter because all I do is play a tank, but I'm sure many rogues, warlocks, hunters, mages, warriors and DKs know what it feels like to feel pretty far behind because you can't potentially easily swap to another spec.

A lot of these systems currently in the game are fine (in my eyes) as a standalone systems. Legendary items, AP, relics and so forth are all decent systems that I think add value to the game. I realize they push class fantasy, and trying to stick to one specialization, but I think all of those systems listed above actually hurt some enjoyment of the game when you combine them altogether with the model of trying to stick it out into one specialization.

I ponder because personally, while I hate the legendary system.. would it have been that bad if all legendary items were class specific, and changing specialization merely changed what the items did? I mean, granted I would rather legendary items be utility/defensive in nature, but if a system existed as such where they swapped their properties based on spec, wouldn't that be incredibly superior? The same goes for AP. To illustrate imagine if AP instead was just a pool that you had throughout the expansion, and when you changed specialization it just reset for you to put into your other trees? Would grinding AP be really that bad under such a system? I don't think it would be personally.

Overall the systems I listed above aren't going to change in this expansion because I doubt they are going to completely change their philosophy on them. Tweak? Yeah, but they aren't going to say what worked and what failed until they release the next expansion.

AP I think would work better at a decent cap each week. Failure to cap in any individual week would just be rolled over into the next week, so you never truly fall behind, you just have to work harder (when you have time) to catch back up. This would work much like the old conquest point system for PvP, except instead of just rolling over half, you roll over all the missed AP for the next week in order to make people feel like they didn't miss out. This removes the issue of people feeling like they need to cap each week, and allows you to set a reasonable amount of AP needed to effectively cap each week. The cap would also quite obviously be artifact specific.

I see a lot of numbers and stuff thrown around but I think if you had an expected amount of AP gained each week, and know beforehand what people would be at on each individual week at a maximum, game balance might be a bit better as well. Right now you have discussions of people claiming that 54 is needed for later Mythic Nighthold, just like you needed most of your raid around 35 to have a chance on Mythic Helya. Whatever they decide it to be, they could simply balance around a number and let excess points be the slow nerf to an instance that they probably intended for it to be.

I'm arguing more for a cap because I think it potentially makes game balance better and even with a cap there is plenty to do in this game (at least how its setup right now) to grow in player power, which is what I think most people like about this expansion.

[Morgaith]

It would and i wish there was one, like valor cap of older days.

[Onikaroshi]

Nah, cause there's nothing worse then hitting a cap and being JUST shy of the next thing, the valor cap was horrible.

[mannenabo]

I cant wait for one more reason to run around in dalaran

[TheWindMask]

No. Putting a cap on things makes it feel mandatory to hit that number each week and it feels horrible. Not having a cap makes it so you can do as much or as little as you want in a given week.

[Alvito]

No. Govern your own play style, if you want to no life it to get every last drop of AP you can great. If you want to do 1 quest a week, super. Blizzard doesn't need to keep protecting the players from themselves.

[Tojara]

Nah, cause there's nothing worse then hitting a cap and being JUST shy of the next thing, the valor cap was horrible.

I mean, realistically you can avoid that by making the traits and caps cost values that would prevent this from evening happening.

I didn't like the valor cap either, but you can certainly make a 'cap system' far more intelligent than they did with the old valor points or even conquest points in PvP.

I don't see how instituting a cap would make people feel horrible for not hitting it that week, if said cap just rolled over into the previous week. Essentially we have this system with emissaries right now, where you only miss out on caches from not doing them every 3 days. Emissaries were obviously designed to make sure people played every several days, but they were 'nice' enough to give some grace period so you aren't feeling like you're left out by not playing for a couple days.

If you had a cap system where the missed amount of AP you failed to get each week was just added to the next weeks one, you could still play as little or as much as you want without truly 'missing out'.

[Dilbon]

No, it would just feel mandatory to hit the cap.

[Onikaroshi]

I mean, realistically you can avoid that by making the traits and caps cost values that would prevent this from evening happening.

I didn't like the valor cap either, but you can certainly make a 'cap system' far more intelligent than they did with the old valor points or even conquest points in PvP.

It would work ONLY if were based on time. What I mean is, doesn't matter the level of your character, week one of legion you can get enough for X number of traits (with X being a decent amount that is just reachable without grinding, but allows a player you at least does their daily heroic, weekly raid etc enough points to not be capped just off that) and then week 2 its x+y, 3 x+y+z etc, you get my point. It has to be based on the time the game is OUT not your time at 110.

Kind of like AK.

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No, it would just feel mandatory to hit the cap.

Wouldn't be AS bad if it was a rolling cap like conquest was. If you don't hit it one week when you're busy but have more time the next you can.

[Adlian]

No thanks. VP cap was terrible idea, glad AP have no restrictions.

[Deleted]

I am not sure, I think limiting game play is a bad idea in general, we have to remember that the people moaning about the AP grind are top end mythic raiders or people with no self control, that probably make up at best 5% of the player base? (These people are very vocal though).

Most people I know like having some form of progression throughout the expansion, it gives us "somethign to do", I like that AP is basicly from every source so it always fells like you are working towards something.

I think a rolling cap like Conquest would be ok, but it needs to be smart as well and scale with AK.

[Opeth69]

No thanks. VP cap was terrible idea, glad AP have no restrictions.

The problem is is that the way AP, warforged and legendaries work this expansion has created an arms race for a lot of guilds. Players are burning themselves out farming mythic+ and AP every chance they can get not because they want to but because the advantage it can give in progression. With there being no cap on anything and huge levels of RNG with loot players are farming more than ever, if the opportunity is there to gain an advantage everyone who cares about progression will take it.

This is causing quite a few higher ranked guilds to have serious roster issues as blizzard has pretty much flooded players with ways to increase your characters effectiveness almost infinitely and for serious raiders if the opportunity is there they will almost always take it. I think a high cap on AP would work but a rolling cap, that scales with artifact knowledge. So you could have say a cap of 10k one week, then rising to 20k etc and so on, but if you only earnt say 5k first week you could earn 15k second week to catch up and hit the 20k total, then next week you would only need 10k to hit the next cap but this would scale as your artifact knowledge increased. This cap could control the difference between no-lifers who grind AP all day and those that cant but also promote pushing tougher challenges like higher mythic+ which are less efficient for AP farming but are more challenging content and one of the reasons mythic+ exists to have that higher level challenge in 5 man content as well, not just a glorified loot and AP farm.

[Deleted]

It would and i wish there was one, like valor cap of older days.

This...

They didn't actually remove the cap. its still there, but so high you either give up and don't care or burn out trying to reach it.

I loved it back in Cata. You could either do 1 HC/day (just like the old daily HC) to get the cap full (which worked out nicely), or you chained all the runs at a saturday evening and were done. There is nothing wrong with being "done" for the week with one char. At least not in terms of power progression.

[Toastyame]

No.

Simply limit artifact levels in Mythic raiding, and have them unlock week by week. Like if NH started @ 45 Mythic week and each week 2 or 3 levels unlocked. Gradually players, who were initially 54, would feel the content be nerfed by 0.5-1.5% each week while non-54 players won't feel forced to be 54 week 1, but rather week 5 or 6.

No need for level restrictions anywhere else, because who cares. People can form till their hearts content and feel rewarded in every other field, but players who raid hardcore won't feel forced to be max/highest available week 1 of content.

[shrunken]

Yes and there should be one.

[Deleted]

Yes, and i wish there would be one so you didn't have it burn yourself out. Just set a value and you can do it a bit every day, or race it asap and have the rest of the week free. No more mindless grinding please. Let us play casual and be able to keep up. People have jobs and families.

[shaunika123]

my only problem with an introduced cap, is the very reason blizzard hasnt put one in yet.

i kinda like being able to do stuff every and any day of the week

if i could get capped on wednesday i'd be bored for a whole week, not to mention if i couldnt cap myself on a week for any particular reason i'd feel behind the others

people are also more likely to go down a dungeon with your shitty alt if there's something in it for them
the AP system is kindof a blessing in disguise for casuals since they can almost always find someone to do their keys with.


if you put a cap in, which demographic do you base it on?
if the cap is too low, HC players complain, if the cap is too high casuals complain, since they'll be more compelled to "cap" themselves every week

i think a more sensible approach is just to make the max points in an artifact not that demanding to reach
i think the current 35-54 point with 25 AK is a relatively good curve

if we get something similar to that in the next patch, then im okay with it. if it's a lot more i'll be pissed if it's a lot less i'll be bored :P

[Tradu]

No. Putting a cap on things makes it feel mandatory to hit that number each week and it feels horrible. Not having a cap makes it so you can do as much or as little as you want in a given week.

Rolling/compounding cap like Conquest used to have. Problem solved.

OT: Yes.

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No.

Simply limit artifact levels in Mythic raiding, and have them unlock week by week. Like if NH started @ 45 Mythic week and each week 2 or 3 levels unlocked. Gradually players, who were initially 54, would feel the content be nerfed by 0.5-1.5% each week while non-54 players won't feel forced to be 54 week 1, but rather week 5 or 6.

No need for level restrictions anywhere else, because who cares. People can form till their hearts content and feel rewarded in every other field, but players who raid hardcore won't feel forced to be max/highest available week 1 of content.

This could also work, but it seems like Blizzard only cares about an "even" playing field in PvP. They were gonna limit legendaries for the first few weeks of mythic just like how they're completely disabled in relevant PvP, didn't end up doing it, just like I have my doubts they'd "cap" AP levels in raids(this would also be pretty hard outside of the paragon-point range, because which traits get disabled when you're at 33 points and the cap is 25?)

[schwarzkopf]

There already is one.

It is called my brain.

[SirCowdog]

No. Govern your own play style, if you want to no life it to get every last drop of AP you can great. If you want to do 1 quest a week, super. Blizzard doesn't need to keep protecting the players from themselves.

Exactly this. Not to mention the absolute conflict of interests between hard-capping progression when a game works off a subscription model. There's already too much of that as it is.