Tier 20 Set Bonusses - Rogue

[Findlyn]

Maybe if they changed the 2pc, so that instead of garrote benefiting from pandemic, it changes garrote to act like deadly poison. If it is already on the target, when you reapply it does damage equal to the remaining amount instantly.

However that could make subterfuge with shoulders a bit on the overly strong side.

[Khrux]

I thought a take on the Survival hunter tier20 bonus would be interesting for Assassination, as its a pretty odd bonus on Survival.

2PC - Lacerate deals 15% increased damage and Flanking Strike increases the duration of your Lacerate by 6 sec.
4PC - Mongoose Bite consumes 3.0 seconds of your Lacerate on your target, instantly dealing 3.0 seconds worth of remaining damage.

Assassination could swap its current 4pc and 2pc positions, then change the 2pc to have envenom consume some of garrotes duration to instantly deal damage equal to the duration consumed and still reduce garrotes CD.

Something like;
Rogue T20 Assassination 2P Bonus - Garrote generates 1 additional combo point and deals 20% increased damage.
Rogue T20 Assassination 4P Bonus - Envenom consumes 6 secs of garrote's current duration to instantly deal damage equal to the duration consumed and reduce garrote's cooldown by 6.0 sec.

So you will now cast Garrote more often, benefiting from the additional combo points generated from the 2pc while each envenom consumes 6 secs of the 18sec duration for instant dmg(two ticks?) and reduces its CD by 6 secs per envenom. So with 3 envenoms you consume the whole garrote effect and reduce its CD to zero so you can reapply it.

[Darkkz]

I thought a take on the Survival hunter tier20 bonus would be interesting for Assassination, as its a pretty odd bonus on Survival.

2PC - Lacerate deals 15% increased damage and Flanking Strike increases the duration of your Lacerate by 6 sec.
4PC - Mongoose Bite consumes 3.0 seconds of your Lacerate on your target, instantly dealing 3.0 seconds worth of remaining damage.

Assassination could swap its current 4pc and 2pc positions, then change the 2pc to have envenom consume some of garrotes duration to instantly deal damage equal to the duration consumed and still reduce garrotes CD.

Something like;
Rogue T20 Assassination 2P Bonus - Garrote generates 1 additional combo point and deals 20% increased damage.
Rogue T20 Assassination 4P Bonus - Envenom consumes 6 secs of garrote's current duration to instantly deal damage equal to the duration consumed and reduce garrote's cooldown by 6.0 sec.

So you will now cast Garrote more often, benefiting from the additional combo points generated from the 2pc while each envenom consumes 6 secs of the 18sec duration for instant dmg(two ticks?) and reduces its CD by 6 secs per envenom. So with 3 envenoms you consume the whole garrote effect and reduce its CD to zero so you can reapply it.

Doesn't sound that bad. Truth be told anything is better than the current iteration of bonus from PTR. Let's hope they update PTR tomorrow or at least this week and maybe something new will show up..

[TheWindMask]

To break it down

Assassination:
In 7.2 you'll be able to proc Bag of Tricks (poison bomb) off Rupture applications
Garrote is getting a 16% damage buff via the trait "Strangler"
The AoE is getting a buff by allowing you to apply Garrote on more targets via the 2p bonus

Outlaw:
2p is just straight up good not much to say about it
4p seems kind of like the Assassination glyph that increased the duration of Vendetta but reduced the damage buff
Basically it just removes some of the burst from Outlaw and smooths out the damage
This does however mean that it's possible to have an extremely high up time on AR

Subtlety:
2p is extremely powerful. The current problem a lot of sub rogues have (for the few that play it) is maintaining energy properly while keeping SoD up because SoD is absurdly expensive
4p just means SoD will be put into a macro again like in Legion pre-patch



TL;DR:
Blizz is acknowledging the fact that Assassination has garbage AoE and is trying to fix that with this tier. They also understand how frustrating managing energy is for Subtlety.

As for you wanting to swap to sub? I wouldn't really bother tbh. The balancing has been amazing in Legion (other than a couple outliers) so you'll be fine sticking with Assassination.

[Puffah]

Assassination:
The AoE is getting a buff by allowing you to apply Garrote on more targets via the 2p bonus

More a slight cleave buff. Only allows you to maintain Garrote on two targets instead of one

[Darkkz]

To break it down

Assassination:
In 7.2 you'll be able to proc Bag of Tricks (poison bomb) off Rupture applications
Garrote is getting a 16% damage buff via the trait "Strangler"
The AoE is getting a buff by allowing you to apply Garrote on more targets via the 2p bonus

Outlaw:
2p is just straight up good not much to say about it
4p seems kind of like the Assassination glyph that increased the duration of Vendetta but reduced the damage buff
Basically it just removes some of the burst from Outlaw and smooths out the damage
This does however mean that it's possible to have an extremely high up time on AR

Subtlety:
2p is extremely powerful. The current problem a lot of sub rogues have (for the few that play it) is maintaining energy properly while keeping SoD up because SoD is absurdly expensive
4p just means SoD will be put into a macro again like in Legion pre-patch



TL;DR:
Blizz is acknowledging the fact that Assassination has garbage AoE and is trying to fix that with this tier. They also understand how frustrating managing energy is for Subtlety.

As for you wanting to swap to sub? I wouldn't really bother tbh. The balancing has been amazing in Legion (other than a couple outliers) so you'll be fine sticking with Assassination.

But we all have to admit that the Assa bonus(es) is(are) quite underwhelming compared to even the other specs. They didn't even bothered to try.

[Dendalaus]

The new 2-pc bonus is still pretty dumb imo. I'm not sure why they're insisting on pushing power into garrote. It's probably one of the weirder parts of the rotation as it is.

[bearsman6]

Looking at the new 7.2 info, I'm going to admit I'm scratching my head too.

"Garrote's cost is reduced by 25 Energy and cooldown is reduced by 12 sec."

I didn't think we were exceptionally starved on energy in this spec... though of course anything to save energy allows me to put more elsewhere.
But these changes make Garrote really strange. Am I mis-remembering, or isn't this going to make the spell cost 20 energy with like... 3 second cooldown? Doesn't that take some of the benefit of Subterfuge away in multi-target situations? Is the 125% damage then going to be enough to make it worth taking?

[DakonBlackblade]

The sin 4 part seens quite powerfull now, runing Subterfuge and with the new trait, 60% extra garrote damage could amount to 6-7% damage bonus, but the 2 parts is still mind bogling, it offers some single target DPS as well as more cleaving power (a lot more comboed with the 4 parts) but its still super wierd and kinda devalue Subterfuge wich is super upvalued by the 4 parts so I duno what to think. What I do know, however, is that no guild will give sins 2 parts, its either 4 parts straight up or no part.

The Outlaw 4 parts aparently works as I initialy tought it would, meaning AR lasts its original duration at full power than 15 seconds more at half power, wich is incredibly overpowered.

[scarfdeath]

garrote is going to hit HARD

garrote does 9% my dmg live with Nightstalker.

if we use the tier 60%dmg + Subterfuge 125%dmg + lvl 4 traits +16% dmg.

well... someone can do the math for it. i will not be surprised if it does more dmg than rupture.

set looks nice now.

[DakonBlackblade]

garrote is going to hit HARD

garrote does 9% my dmg live with Nightstalker.

if we use the tier 60%dmg + Subterfuge 125%dmg + lvl 4 traits +16% dmg.

well... someone can do the math for it. i will not be surprised if it does more dmg than rupture.

set looks nice now.

It amounts to something around 6-8% extra damage, wich is more or less the same the T 19 4 parts give us now. The 2 parts is the problem, the one on T19 is much stronger. However Tomb seens to have a lot of cleave fights, so it could be great.

Someone has to run the numbers but with Garrote costing so little and having such a small CD it might be worth to use it just for the 2 CPs when we have the 4 parts.

[scarfdeath]

It amounts to something around 6-8% extra damage, wich is more or less the same the T 19 4 parts give us now. The 2 parts is the problem, the one on T19 is much stronger. However Tomb seens to have a lot of cleave fights, so it could be great.

Someone has to run the numbers but with Garrote costing so little and having such a small CD it might be worth to use it just for the 2 CPs when we have the 4 parts.

yes the 2p is still not that good but the tier as a whole is very solid now.

maybe even Hemorrhage can be the talent to go.

if ruptures does 20-25% our dmg and garrote others 20%.

[Finear]

maybe even Hemorrhage can be the talent to go.
.

please noo

[Eazy]

Item - Rogue T20 Assassination 2P Bonus Garrote's cooldown is reduced by 6.0 sec. Garrote's cost is reduced by 25 Energy and cooldown is reduced by 12 sec.
Item - Rogue T20 Assassination 4P Bonus Garrote generates 1 additional combo point and deals 20% increased damage. 60% increased damage.

Not something I wanted, but still better than before...

yes the 2p is still not that good but the tier as a whole is very solid now.

maybe even Hemorrhage can be the talent to go.

if ruptures does 20-25% our dmg and garrote others 20%.

So in 7.1.5 we wanted you guys to be poison rogues, in 7.2 you guys are going to be bleed rogues! - Blizz.

[Essem]

Bag of Tricks down from 3% per CP to 2.5% im sad. So a 12.5% on a 5CP finisher. Guess wel have to see how this is gonna be compared to live. I felt the 15% was fine.

[DakonBlackblade]

Bag of Tricks down from 3% per CP to 2.5% im sad. So a 12.5% on a 5CP finisher. Guess wel have to see how this is gonna be compared to live. I felt the 15% was fine.

Is the proc 100% (or close to it) if youre using your first envenom after being out of combat for a long time, cause currently you have a very high proc chance on the first few envenoms you use, if its just a static 12.5% (or 10% cause we use a lot of finishers at 4cps) its gona suck for our openers.

[shaunika123]

garrotte is gonna be insane now with a 3second cooldown and granting 2 cps.

if only all fights were heroic botanist

ofc they're probably gonna change it around like 50 times before it's live

but still on pure ST the bonuses arent gonna be better than the current ones.

they'll add up to like what ~8% dmg in total? if that
the current ones are like 10-12%

So in 7.1.5 we wanted you guys to be poison rogues, in 7.2 you guys are going to be bleed rogues! - Blizz.

i mean... werent we already?
and anyway poisons still make up more of our dmg than bleeds to (if we count envenom)
and ~30% of our bleed dmg comes from poisons also (AP)

[DakonBlackblade]

garrotte is gonna be insane now with a 3second cooldown and granting 2 cps.

if only all fights were heroic botanist

ofc they're probably gonna change it around like 50 times before it's live

but still on pure ST the bonuses arent gonna be better than the current ones.

they'll add up to like what ~8% dmg in total? if that
the current ones are like 10-12%

Ye but that means the tier will be quite decent when you add up ilevel differences and all, to be fair current tier is too powerfull, an 8% upgrade is where its normally at, if blizz doesn't go and nerf it to the ground, but thats a big if.

[Wow]

Is the proc 100% (or close to it) if youre using your first envenom after bein out of combat for a long time, cause currently you have a very high proc chance on the first few envenoms you use, if its just a static 12.5% (or 10% cause we use a lot of finishers at 4cps) its gona suck for our openers.

Nope that only happened because of rppm it also won't scale with getting more haste like lust now as well...

[Offenser]

Don't forget that we gonna lose The t19 4p bonus, so our envenons will do less damage