T20 set bonuses - Thoughts?

[melodramocracy]

Ele one in multi target situations will be pretty amazing.

[Deleted]

We are going towards a pet class. I HATE that. Who cares about the fire elemental totem.. It will force us to go primal elementalist aka remove Elemental blast from rotation making the rotation to have 1 less talent just for some passive crap. ugh

[Nyel]

We are going towards a pet class. I HATE that. Who cares about the fire elemental totem.. It will force us to go primal elementalist aka remove Elemental blast from rotation making the rotation to have 1 less talent just for some passive crap. ugh

The same is happening to Shadow Priests but for them it's even worse. Shadowfiend / Mind Bender never were any bigger parts of their rotation / playstyle but with the T20 Blizzard is focussing on that approach...
________

On the Resto T20... the 2p bonus is pretty bad. The 4p can be great when it's proccing from every Riptide crit and not only by Riptide crits from the 2p.

[Deleted]

We are going towards a pet class. I HATE that. Who cares about the fire elemental totem.. It will force us to go primal elementalist aka remove Elemental blast from rotation making the rotation to have 1 less talent just for some passive crap. ugh

While yes, more of your dmg will come from fire elemental, it does not force us to go primal on single target. Please refer to my prior calculations in this thread, but the gist of it is that primal is currently far enough behind eleblast, that it will not overtake eleblast on single target.
For sustained aoe/cleave it will be better, but you usually don't cast eleblast in ae situations anyway, so eleblast does very little for playstyle and damage anyway. If you have mostly snap ae (e.g. bombing adds on krosus) then a well time eleblast will still be better.

[Ele man]

ele's t20 Similar to Wod's trinkets(drop by archimonde), This effect is not bad because spread dps is one of the disadvantages of ele.
The values ​​are adjusted.

[zoroaester]

looking at the restoration one im pretty excited. Due to how the riptide crits lead to healing rain, I think ill stay CBT and pass on echoe. Due to being granted a 100% riptide crit chance from your other healing spells, it doesnt seem necesarry to need 2 riptides, especially since if you riptide on cd you should be getting 2 in per healing rain anways. I think im mostly excited because this will make loading cbt's even more effective, especially when combined with our new traits (increased healing rain healing from that as well and the double GoTQ). Im curious if crashing waves will become more desirable since well be able to load up cbt so heavily that we won't need the extra cd's and the haste to get off more hw's may proc more crit riptides getting you more bonus heal healing rains. Also stoked because these changes seem like theyll make my legendary boots a little better

[tarakan]

I read all and have question - all agry with t20 for ench?

[Phaty]

I read all and have question - all agry with t20 for ench?

enhance dosnt seem right. its like it was designed assuming t19 2p was a baseline thing. the set bonus proccing off crits without t19 is going to take forever to reach 10 stacks.

[Zinip]

I read all and have question - all agry with t20 for ench?

Oh god 'thos' ppl that believe there is an enCHanter shammy spec is rising up again...... -_-

The only way that would be possible was if *ANY* spec of shaman took 'enchanting' as one of their main professions.
Even then that would still make them an enh, ele, or resto shammy enchanter, not an enchanting shammy(as in describing the shamans spec).

An enHANCEment shaman exists as a melee dps spec, but enchanting (a profession) doesn't relate to a/any shaman specialization(s).
...even /shiver (bleh - but still tech correct) enhancers/hancers/enhance...

W/e you choose, just don't call us ench.

[Skildar]

enhance dosnt seem right. its like it was designed assuming t19 2p was a baseline thing. the set bonus proccing off crits without t19 is going to take forever to reach 10 stacks.

What I really don't like about this set bonus is that you will have to create a specific weakauras to track it and above all the 10 stack mechanic have been used during wod with lightening shield for the elemental shaman and is just not a good gameplay, clearly...

[tarakan]

I glad .that i give u funny(or not),but ENH shamabs have a big problem with t20 and this not funny...

[Deleted]

What I really don't like about this set bonus is that you will have to create a specific weakauras to track it and above all the 10 stack mechanic have been used during wod with lightening shield for the elemental shaman and is just not a good gameplay, clearly...

You will have to press it anyways every 16 seconds so stacks wont matter a lot. And having a weak aura for this isnt a problem...

[tarakan]

What I really don't like about this set bonus is that you will have to create a specific weakauras to track it and above all the 10 stack mechanic have been used during wod with lightening shield for the elemental shaman and is just not a good gameplay, clearly...

But ls dont sinergy with other spells,then cl most aoe spell and i dont think so we get 10 stucks when buff lost,but if we got it,this not too much dmg for set bonus
Bliz want reworck cl ,its too weak aoe for mele class...

[Ghrog]

The problem with the T20 4 Piece as I see it. We will be hitting crash lightning every 16 seconds to maintain the Crit Buff. So, how many Crit Strikes of Stormstrike do you think you will get during that period? Lets assume Tempest is used.

I'll use an AMR simulation using my current gearset which includes the T19 2 Piece (obviously not perfect, but meh, were just eyeballing napkin mathing it here).

During the simulation I hit Stormstrike Crits 52% of the time, lets bump that up to 57% thanks to the 2 pc. Now we end up with an average of a SS crit every 6 seconds.

So, now we are looking at on average 2.6 stacks for each Crash lightning. (Again, not perfect... just getting an eyeball here) And each crash lightning averaging to 103 K Damage. Crash lightning is now being boosted by an average of 79% damage each use bumping it up to 184 K per cast. Now, if CL is used on every 16 seconds were looking at 11500 DPS from it (or about 2% increase in DPS from 2pc to 4 pc since the 4 piece doesn't change your playstyle. The 2 piece does that).

So currently, the 2 piece... not bad.
The 4 piece... very underwhelming.

Again, this is very generalized data... I'd need to actually put together a simulation to really figure it out, but these give us some admittedly very rough ugly estimates to go off of. This is also counting the 2 Piece T19... so again, another grain of salt to take in.

[Phaty]

The problem with the T20 4 Piece as I see it. We will be hitting crash lightning every 16 seconds to maintain the Crit Buff. So, how many Crit Strikes of Stormstrike do you think you will get during that period? Lets assume Tempest is used.

I'll use an AMR simulation using my current gearset which includes the T19 2 Piece (obviously not perfect, but meh, were just eyeballing napkin mathing it here).

During the simulation I hit Stormstrike Crits 52% of the time, lets bump that up to 57% thanks to the 2 pc. Now we end up with an average of a SS crit every 6 seconds.

So, now we are looking at on average 2.6 stacks for each Crash lightning. (Again, not perfect... just getting an eyeball here) And each crash lightning averaging to 103 K Damage. Crash lightning is now being boosted by an average of 79% damage each use bumping it up to 184 K per cast. Now, if CL is used on every 16 seconds were looking at 11500 DPS from it (or about 2% increase in DPS from 2pc to 4 pc since the 4 piece doesn't change your playstyle. The 2 piece does that).

So currently, the 2 piece... not bad.
The 4 piece... very underwhelming.

Again, this is very generalized data... I'd need to actually put together a simulation to really figure it out, but these give us some admittedly very rough ugly estimates to go off of. This is also counting the 2 Piece T19... so again, another grain of salt to take in.

im wondering if it will count MH and OH crits as seperate

[Gunwolf]

For Enhance, do we know for sure that the buff from 4set will be consumed when you use CL? When I first read it, I kinda thought that it would be a stacking buff so that your CL gets stronger over time until 10 stacks.... at which point it either stays like that for the rest of the fight, or gets consumed and you start back over. I'm sure +300% CL damage is prob too strong for long periods of time, but I gotta agree with the point about how we will be using CL atleast every 16 sec and even more in aoe fights so we will never get to 10 stacks, which makes me wonder why its even possible.

I gotta say I'm not a big fan of either bonus for Enhance, crit is one of our worst stats... adding some crit interaction is fine and all, but this seems like a bad way to do it. Our aoe/cleave seems to be our weak point and I dunno if our new traits or set bonuses really are enough to fix it. I really don't like how the set bonuses seem to contradict each other.


An idea for alternatives:


2 set = CL stacks a buff X, which increases the damage of your next CL, stacking up to 3 times.

4 set = At 3 stacks, your next LL consumes the buff to do like 400% damage to all targets infront of you.

This would give us a strong, bursty cleave ability (kinda like frostscythe) that would take about 12 sec if u use CL on cd, and CL gets stronger over time.


Tried to think of something to make crit feel more useful and couldn't but there is plenty of stuff they can do that has better synergy then the T20 set bonuses we have now.



Also, an alternative to current searing/lashing flames (FT damage increases LL damage) would be something like

"Stormbringer procs stack a buff, X, up to 5 stacks. At 5 stacks, your LL consumes the buff to do 400% more damage."

The number of stacks is just a guess, prob 3-5, since SB procs but not always but basically full in 20 sec or so. Alternatively, could be just SS not SB, but then stuff like SB or Tempest would make it much quicker to stack and it would be more like 7-10 stacks to get full buff.

This is a bit similar to the old searing flames, but not tied to our totem or FT which are passive damage, and instead to our SS which feels more active. Would give some synergy between SS and LL, and bring back that old hard hitting LL once in a while. This seems better to me, but not sure, since one good thing about relying on FT is that it will get more benefit from haste and melee swings to get buff faster while this would rely on SS/SB, which is proc (but I guess technically benefits from haste and mastery).

[Creekz]

For Enhance, do we know for sure that the buff from 4set will be consumed when you use CL?.

It does say "increase the damage of your next Crash Lightning by 30%"

If it wouldn't get consumed, it would just say "increase the damage of your Crash Lightning by 30%"

I really don't like how the set bonuses seem to contradict each other.

How are they contradicting eachother? I feel they synergize very well.

T19 2set: Stormbringer also increases the critical strike chance of Stormstrike by 40%.
T20 2set: Crash Lightning increases your critical strike chance by 5% for 16 sec.
T20 4set: Stormstrike critical strikes increase the damage of your next Crash Lightning by 30%, stacking up to 10 times.

Together they super-power your stormstrikes with an assload of crit%, which boosts your CL.

[Gunwolf]

It does say "increase the damage of your next Crash Lightning by 30%"

If it wouldn't get consumed, it would just say "increase the damage of your Crash Lightning by 30%"




How are they contradicting eachother? I feel they synergize very well.

T19 2set: Stormbringer also increases the critical strike chance of Stormstrike by 40%.
T20 2set: Crash Lightning increases your critical strike chance by 5% for 16 sec.
T20 4set: Stormstrike critical strikes increase the damage of your next Crash Lightning by 30%, stacking up to 10 times.

Together they super-power your stormstrikes with an assload of crit%, which boosts your CL.

True, I noticed the "next" as well but just trying to make sense of it all and see how it can potentially work... specifically for 10 stacks.

Yea, they have some synergy with each other as well as the bonus crit from the T19.... but the problem is that you will be using CL often so it will never get up to 10 stacks, so why even have that limit? Why not just 5 or something? In aoe/cleave we use CL like every 6-10 sec... but now even on single target you will wanna use it every 16-20 sec or so to maintain the 5% crit bonus. So if we use it every 20 sec, we might only get a few stacks of the buff realistically like 3-4 but not anywhere close to 10.

Fury Warriors have a similar set bonus pair with the same "up to 10 stacks" and they are also not too happy with it and confused on how it works or why they contradict each other:

(2) Bloodthirst critical strikes have a 50% chance to grant you Raging Thirst, increasing the damage of your Raging Blow by 50% for 8 sec.
(4) Raging Blow increases the damage and healing of your next Bloodthirst by 20%(50% with IR) stacking up to 10 times.


Same issue for them.... Bloodthirst is used pretty often so they will never get close to 10 stacks before the buff is consumed. It just doesn't make sense.





Now that I think about it some more... there is actually one other alternative (along with the other ones that I previously mentioned) that could possibly work. Its possible that each SS crit adds a stack of the buff but each CL only consumes ONE stack of the buff... not ALL of them. This way the buff stacks work like charges basically.

If not, and it really is just a consumable buff.... then that kinda sucks and I really don't see the point in letting it stack to 10 if we will be using CL atleast every 20 sec. Either bad design or bad wording, so I hope they change it.

[sebax313]

thats why ppl complain. thats bad that t20 makes you farm endlessly t19. Same crap with Bloodthirsty Instinct.

[tarakan]

Need cheng CL,some - more target we hit,more they take damage
Next Crushing storm - need similar stats for dmg with CL
Buff from CL need made like my version CL