‘Our land’: Russia tells US that Crimea won’t be ‘given back’ to Ukraine

[Elim Garak]

We weren't actually scared. I used to watch GDR state media sometimes. It was funny. Still black and white in the late 80s, because... who knows, colour TV was probably not allowed in socialist countries. Does it freak you out when people are taught to think for themselves? :P

My family had a color TV all channels in color in late 80s, I played Atari 2600 on it. GDR had to suffer because WW2. No one taught you to think about that?

[Slant]

My family had a color TV all channels in color in late 80s, I played Atari 2600 on it. GDR had to suffer because WW2. No one taught you to think about that?

Oh, we knew why they were having b/w TV. I was just making a joke. Untwist your pants, my Cardassian friend.

Btw, unlike most people here that are not from Germany, I was actually inside the GDR when it still existed. And I know how it is to send mail to someone inside and make sure it's non-critical because the socialist police will rip it open and read everything inside and censor it if necessary. Like, literally cut out passages that talk about the West. Ask anyone here from Eastern Germany, they'll tell you the same stories.

This is how things work in the East. And it seems Russia is regressing into that age, as demonstrated by the modern propaganda machine, spearheaded by RT. :P

[caervek]

I thought Putin was a pretty decent dude up until he circumvented Russian rules about president terms with... what I astonishingly considered to be a very cheap trick out of the dictator's playbook.

What exactly is the issue here really? The Russian government changed the law, that's not a bad thing if it's in the interest of the people, it's still the people who choose the president, they can't serve multiple terms if they don't get elected. We never cried when Churchill ran again, I honestly don't see the point in limiting how many times a person can serve in a democracy.

[Elim Garak]

Oh, we knew why they were having b/w TV. I was just making a joke. Untwist your pants, my Cardassian friend.

That would be unfashionable.

[caervek]

That would be unfashionable.

And a "tailor" would know all about fashion.

[Slant]

What exactly is the issue here really? The Russian government changed the law, that's not a bad thing if it's in the interest of the people, it's still the people who choose the president, they can't serve multiple terms if they don't get elected. We never cried when Churchill ran again, I honestly don't see the point in limiting how many times a person can serve in a democracy.

I don't, either. But I think it's a pretty cheap stunt to go for what was it, prime minister for a term, have a puppet president in the meantime and then return to the job until he changed the law to just stay there indefinitely. It's not wrong, per se. But it is sketchy.

[Gaidax]

Shocking news I know...

lulz, Crimea is Russian forever pretty much, unless US manages to put some bootlicker on the throne there.

Should have made pouty faces and angry statements when US had the chance to actually do something.

[Elim Garak]

I don't, either. But I think it's a pretty cheap stunt to go for what was it, prime minister for a term, have a puppet president in the meantime and then return to the job until he changed the law to just stay there indefinitely. It's not wrong, per se. But it is sketchy.

No one in Russia is fooled by that either. Not that Putin tried to fool anyone to begin with - it was quite transparent. Just shows how popular Putin is that people allow him such political gymnastics.

[Slant]

No one in Russia is fooled by that either. Not that Putin tried to fool anyone to begin with - it was quite transparent. Just shows how popular Putin is that people allow him such political gymnastics.

Yes, well. And he's pretty decent for Russia domestically. Apart from the sanctions he provokes from the EU and the US. Be that as it may, he needs to take a step back. I get it, it's easy to sell the NATO conspiracy to take over Russia to the Russian people. They might gobble that up like corn flakes. But Putin himself, he knows NATO isn't doing anything. So this whole shebang is really just a show to impress his own people. As long as he sticks to that, I don't give a fuck. But once he starts meddling in EU affairs, I'd be supporting pretty much whatever sanction or other punishment the EU dreams up. Russia has zero claim in the EU. Russia is European in geography only. Politically, they have no place here and can pretty much fuck off to Asia.

[Deleted]

Oh, we knew why they were having b/w TV. I was just making a joke. Untwist your pants, my Cardassian friend.

Btw, unlike most people here that are not from Germany, I was actually inside the GDR when it still existed. And I know how it is to send mail to someone inside and make sure it's non-critical because the socialist police will rip it open and read everything inside and censor it if necessary. Like, literally cut out passages that talk about the West. Ask anyone here from Eastern Germany, they'll tell you the same stories.

This is how things work in the East. And it seems Russia is regressing into that age, as demonstrated by the modern propaganda machine, spearheaded by RT. :P

You mean, just like America is doing right now with our emails?

[NED funded]

As i said, "popularity" isn't the only performance metric for governors.

Are Russians allowed to vote?

Low-level corruption is already significantly reduced at this point. It is also not major drain on overall resources.

My point was that low-level corruption is not tied to performance metrics.

Because it is waste of effort. There is more waste due to incompetence rather then corruption.

LOL, you did not really say that right? Let corruption ran rampant then. Afterall incompetence is worse.

Where does it say random? It also makes much easier to select experts that match opinion of multiple review panels rather then experts that can actually assess situation truthfully.

They choose one expert and then have the opinion reviewed by another one blindly. It gives that impression. They then have those opinions reviewed by authorities to ensure it does not stray from the established. This does not really seem flawed unless I'm missing something. Those experts are vetted by the ones doing the transparency repport. I'll repeat it one more time you are going to have to prove that the experts are in fact incompetent or that their opinion does not match reality. Not just throw some vague platitudes.

[Elim Garak]

They choose one expert and then have the opinion reviewed by another one blindly. It gives that impression. They then have those opinions reviewed by authorities to ensure it does not stray from the established. This does not really seem flawed unless I'm missing something.

Wow, ok, carry on.

[Slant]

You mean, just like America is doing right now with our emails?

Are you joking? How are Americans editing your private emails? Do you know what kind of shitstorm that would be? billions of emails per day going back and forth between the US and Europe, you don't think anyone would notice if stuff was censored?

[NED funded]

Wow, ok, carry on.

Yeah, when you deviate from what is established they better have a good reason as to why, else there is something wrong.

[Deleted]

Are you joking? How are Americans editing your private emails? Do you know what kind of shitstorm that would be? billions of emails per day going back and forth between the US and Europe, you don't think anyone would notice if stuff was censored?

So reading emails isn't bad enough? I'm sure they won't edit allot, but im sure as well that those powers have been used in one way or another.

But it really doesn't matter, all im trying to say is that the western governments are doing just as many "things that should not be" as the Russians. If you think that it is only one side that is aggressive or that uses propaganda you are sourly mistaken. The first victim in any conflict is the truth and all our leaders are sure to make as much use out off this as they can, no matter where you live.

[Slant]

So reading emails isn't bad enough? I'm sure they won't edit allot, but im sure as well that those powers have been used in one way or another.

But it really doesn't matter, all im trying to say is that the western governments are doing just as many "things that should not be" as the Russians. To think that it is only one side that is aggressive or that uses propaganda you are sourly mistaken. The first victim in any conflict is the truth and all our leaders are sure to make as much use out off this as they can, no matter where you live.

"Reading email" as in scanning them with a computer system for key phrases and evaluating them isn't quite in the same ballpark as actually reading private letters and snipping out undesired content, literally with a scissor.

[Deleted]

"Reading email" as in scanning them with a computer system for key phrases and evaluating them isn't quite in the same ballpark as actually reading private letters and snipping out undesired content, literally with a scissor.

Yes it is, what does it matter if someone knows if you love your grand ma or if you went out fishing last week?? Those are uninteresting things, you only read the things you are interested in, so if you can use key phrases to search through this mess then yes, it is just as bad. I'm not saying that it wasn't bad in east Germany, but in our current world i do think that reading emails like what is done is just as bad. You can buy into the whole "but terror" bullshit, but in the mean time it is a big part of privacy that is being tossed out off the window.

[Slant]

Yes it is, what does it matter if someone knows if you love your grand ma or if you went out fishing last week?? Those are uninteresting things, you only read the things you are interested in, so if you can use key phrases to search through this mess then yes, it is just as bad. I'm not saying that it wasn't bad in east Germany, but in our current world i do think that reading emails like what is done is just as bad. You can buy into the whole "but terror" bullshit, but in the mean time it is a big part of privacy that is being tossed out off the window.

Ok, I don't talk to conspiracy theorists. Have a good one!

[caervek]

Yes it is

No, it's not even in the same league.

[Deleted]

Ok, I don't talk to conspiracy theorists. Have a good one!

Right, me pointing out that reading emails is a breach in our privacy is bing a "conspiracy theorist" now... Must be good living in a world where everything you do not want to know is people being conspiracy theorist, you must feel really safe.

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No, it's not even in the same league.

So im guessing you would be fine with people reading your mail.