MU Gul'dan's Body in the Tomb of Sargeras

[Aucald]

The provenance of the picture has been well established and discussing moderation actions is ill-advised. Let's focus on MU Gul'dan's fate or the essential details of the picture instead of continuing derailment.

[meroko]

Everytime I load into Northrend. I think about that Subway.

Think of how much the photo can grow, even to this day. Like...I want that thread revived, lol.

[Evangeliste]

I might have to read Chronicles to be honest. With all the retcon, Legion and stuff it makes me wonder how did Gul'dan's head leave the Tomb of Sargeras to eventually fall into Illidan's hand to consume, I mean is all the lore as it was or has that all been edited to fit in with the new vibe and the AU stuff?

[Aucald]

I might have to read Chronicles to be honest. With all the retcon, Legion and stuff it makes me wonder how did Gul'dan's head leave the Tomb of Sargeras to eventually fall into Illidan's hand to consume, I mean is all the lore as it was or has that all been edited to fit in with the new vibe and the AU stuff?

I imagine the demons sealed in the tomb along with the Avatar of Sargeras managed to escape once Gul'dan had raised it from the depths, and some of them opted to take Gul'dan's skull with them (perhaps sensing the high concentrations of Fel Gul'dan would've harbored as a powerful Warlock). These demons caught up with the Legion, who took the skull as their prize and enhanced it, with it eventually finding usage in Tichondrius' hands to corrupt Felwood, and the rest of the story is history.

None of this is covered in "Chronicle Vol. 1," but it sounds like it will be "Chronicle Vol. 2."

[Evangeliste]

I imagine the demons sealed in the tomb along with the Avatar of Sargeras managed to escape once Gul'dan had raised it from the depths, and some of them opted to take Gul'dan's skull with them (perhaps sensing the high concentrations of Fel Gul'dan would've harbored as a powerful Warlock). These demons caught up with the Legion, who took the skull as their prize and enhanced it, with it eventually finding usage in Tichondrius' hands to corrupt Felwood, and the rest of the story is history.

None of this is covered in "Chronicle Vol. 1," but it sounds like it will be "Chronicle Vol. 2."

Ok, I should have really guessed though I had a brain fart about it all. I will probably invest in the series though I must admit I am hesitate because it doesn't stop these new books and canon from also being retconned in the future.

[FelPlague]

The provenance of the picture has been well established and discussing moderation actions is ill-advised. Let's focus on MU Gul'dan's fate or the essential details of the picture instead of continuing derailment.

Can you change the name to "we found" or "my guldans body found" because it is bugging me. (Won't go into exact detail why) but there isn't really to much to talk about is there? I mean we have always known its here. We know the runes are on the walls. What is there to talk about really. Other then mumble about already known lore? The op gave no sorta lead to the thread. Just a picture

[Aucald]

Can you change the name to "we found" or "my guldans body found" because it is bugging me. (Won't go into exact detail why) but there isn't really to much to talk about is there? I mean we have always known its here. We know the runes are on the walls. What is there to talk about really. Other then mumble about already known lore? The op gave no sorta lead to the thread. Just a picture

I agree, and I've changed the thread title to something hopefully more topical. Personally I find the whole notion of the original Gul'dan's corpse being present in the Tomb of Sargeras to be fascinating. It's unfortunate AU Gul'dan died in the Nightwell before he could encounter the remains of his other self, especially given how vehement he is about being his own person when compared to his previous incarnation.

[Orby]

Posting that video just in case:

(15:50 Gul'dan)

Tomb of Sargeras sure looks nice considering it was raised from the ocean floor? didn't know demons were good at renovation? Wheres the ruins, the cave in that transpired during Maiev's escape? Very little here reminds me or makes me think of a tomb. Least they kept the sunken depths of the tomb, that were featured in Wc3:TFT

[Aucald]

Tomb of Sargeras sure looks nice considering it was raised from the ocean floor? didn't know demons were good at renovation? Wheres the ruins, the cave in that transpired during Maiev's escape? Least they kept the sunken depths of the tomb, that were featured in Wc3:TFT

Perhaps the Titan Keeper in the dungeon cleaned things up a bit before succumbing to Fel corruption itself.

[Raetary]

Tomb of Sargeras sure looks nice considering it was raised from the ocean floor?

i think its pretty safe to assume that arcane stuff or elune herself protect the temple quite a bit, as the inside is still mostly uncorrupted.

[Kralljin]

Tomb of Sargeras sure looks nice considering it was raised from the ocean floor? didn't know demons were good at renovation? Wheres the ruins, the cave in that transpired during Maiev's escape? Very little here reminds me or makes me think of a tomb. Least they kept the sunken depths of the tomb, that were featured in Wc3:TFT

Couldn't agree more.

Expected some kind of ancient ruins mixed with sea stuff, rubbles and demon corrupted stuff.

And we seemingly get a near pristine version of a Nighthold that goes underground.

i think its pretty safe to assume that arcane stuff or elune herself protect the temple quite a bit, as the inside is still mostly uncorrupted.

Didn't look that protected from...natural causes during Warcraft 3.

[FelPlague]

I agree, and I've changed the thread title to something hopefully more topical. Personally I find the whole notion of the original Gul'dan's corpse being present in the Tomb of Sargeras to be fascinating. It's unfortunate AU Gul'dan died in the Nightwell before he could encounter the remains of his other self, especially given how vehement he is about being his own person when compared to his previous incarnation.

yes i think it would have been cool, to see guldan find his own body, and possible have a mental breakdown on his true motives, as he realizes the second he messes up, his "allies" are willing to so easily betray him

also kind of sad using the skull of guldan trinket during the fight doesent do anything :"( i was also hoping demo locks would get a hidden skin for skull of guldan where guldan talk to you instead, or a second skull floats around and talks aswell and that is guldans

[Raetary]

Didn't look that protected from...natural causes during Warcraft 3.

in wc3 suramar was a ruin too, now look what the city looks like now.

[Aucald]

Ancient Elven architecture seems to be very resistant to entropy over time, if what we've seen of it is to be believed. The Tomb of Sargeras does show some indications it spent several thousand years beneath the waves, but it is still largely unsullied by the passage of time.

[FriendOrTraitor]

in wc3 suramar was a ruin too, now look what the city looks like now.

I have been under the impression that Gul'dan merely raised the Broken Shore, not the whole of the Isles. Otherwise, so many of the sentient races being there wouldn't make sense. If what I think is true, Suramar City would still be sealed behind the giant bubble.

[Aucald]

I have been under the impression that Gul'dan merely raised the Broken Shore, not the whole of the Isles. Otherwise, so many of the sentient races being there wouldn't make sense. If what I think is true, Suramar City would still be sealed behind the giant bubble.

That's an inconsistency between WC3: TFT and Legion. In the former Maiev finds parts of Suramar City explicitly, including an area she refers to as the Great Library of Izal-Shurah (itself part of Suramar City) - but these are complete ruins and contain some Naga statuary and architecture. Suramar in Legion is completely intact and completely ancient Night Elven, and its backstory would indicate that Maiev wouldn't have been able to encounter it as it was shrouded due to Elisande's enchantments.

[Hctaz]

this is makes me think, wow the lore really is broken as fuck, demons ripped gul'dan apart but now in this universe another gul'dan wasn't ripped apart by them, but commands them instead.

this crappy multiverse stuff ugh.

The lore isn't broken at all. Demons ripped apart Gul'dan because he betrayed the horde and, in turn, the legion in order to gain more power for himself. There were demons in the tomb and KJ was not happy that he caused the downfall of the horde at a crucial battle and ordered his execution.

KJ makes several references to MU Gul'dan's betrayal and death in the audio drama that they released and he says multiple times that it was because Gul'dan failed them and for AU Gul'dan to not make the same mistake.

[Aucald]

The lore isn't broken at all. Demons ripped apart Gul'dan because he betrayed the horde and, in turn, the legion in order to gain more power for himself. There were demons in the tomb and KJ was not happy that he caused the downfall of the horde at a crucial battle and ordered his execution.

The demons in the tomb were more angered by the fact that Gul'dan had the temerity to try to steal the power still present in Sargeras' avatar, not really his betrayal of the Horde (which they probably weren't even aware of). Many of the demons present in the tomb were also insane from isolation and time, they are described as pouring from the opening of the tomb and tearing apart several of Gul'dan's Death Knights the moment they smelled freedom.

[Hctaz]

yes i think it would have been cool, to see guldan find his own body, and possible have a mental breakdown on his true motives, as he realizes the second he messes up, his "allies" are willing to so easily betray him

also kind of sad using the skull of guldan trinket during the fight doesent do anything :"( i was also hoping demo locks would get a hidden skin for skull of guldan where guldan talk to you instead, or a second skull floats around and talks aswell and that is guldans

He already had this happen to him. The audio drama released detailed this already where Khadgar mentions that the legion had him killed after he failed them and he almost goes rogue for a minute. KJ also mentioned that the reason they killed him was because he betrayed the legion by seeking power for himself and abandoning the horde at a crucial battle.

- - - Updated - - -

The demons in the tomb were more angered by the fact that Gul'dan had the temerity to try to steal the power still present in Sargeras' avatar, not really his betrayal of the Horde (which they probably weren't even aware of). Many of the demons present in the tomb were also insane from isolation and time, they are described as pouring from the opening of the tomb and tearing apart several of Gul'dan's Death Knights the moment they smelled freedom.

I know this was the case in WC3 but it might have been retconned by the audio drama. KJ seems to imply that he actually instructed those demons to kill Gul'dan for his betrayal of the horde and threatens AU Gul'dan not to make the same mistake as his MU version.

[FelPlague]

He already had this happen to him. The audio drama released detailed this already where Khadgar mentions that the legion had him killed after he failed them and he almost goes rogue for a minute. KJ also mentioned that the reason they killed him was because he betrayed the legion by seeking power for himself and abandoning the horde at a crucial battle.

- - - Updated - - -



I know this was the case in WC3 but it might have been retconned by the audio drama. KJ seems to imply that he actually instructed those demons to kill Gul'dan for his betrayal of the horde and threatens AU Gul'dan not to make the same mistake as his MU version.

i know he had the thoughts, but i was hoping to see him have a literal mental breakdown infront of the body, like on the level of he goes batshit insane and kills a demon boss for us then dies of a heart attack or some shit

like maybe during the nighthold fight we imprison him as we need him to open a door, he does it and finds his body kills a demon then he dies of a heart attack, or once of the players walks up and right clicks him to end his pathetic life