Rooting For "Deep State" To Undermine Trump Is Destroying Democracy In Name Of Saving

[Azrile]

In the absence of congressional action what else is there to hope for? Wait two years and replace them. I'm not sure if I believe there is such a thing as the "deep state" though. At least in the sense that there is something there with goals of it's own and leadership of its own. It's just the manifestation of the government bureaucracy. It has no real goal other than it's own survival at heart. People want to keep their jobs. So I guess if the administration threatens it with it's own destruction it would probably unite against a common enemy.

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I like the idea of it as a dead cat bounce. Or perhaps a pendulum swinging out before it moves back towards the center. It seems to me the powers of global economics will crush any trend towards isolation or nationalism eventually, because the same people who cry for isolationism also buy iphones and shop on Amazon and at Walmart.

It is more than that, it is because the newer generation has seen what has happened to my generation. They have seen that you cannot expect to ´thrive´ in a first world country if you educate yourself like a third world person. My generation did not see that. We saw our parents and grandparents without college educations, even without HS educations being bosses in factories and making 80k per year. My parents and none of my grandparents had college educations, and all 6 of them had firmly middle-class jobs throughout their lives. The newer generation is not only told that they need to have a college education to get jobs of the future, they are seeing the people of my generation suffering and becoming Trumpsters because of not having an education and job portability.

[ShadowofVashj]

Quite frankly no. I'm not fine with the medias, I'm not fine with Trump, I'm not fine with the people's reaction and I'm not fine with the aura of hysteria that fester worldwide right now.

This week's press conference exposed two things: How the media's twisted what Trump said during the conference (which I watched live for most of it, and was honestly appaled by how the Medias twisted it), and how Trump belittles the medias.

Trump's not what you're painting him to be. You want that to be true, because I guess you're genuinely afraid of that. Considering how caustic you were during the elections, that's my guess, but I could be wrong.

Plus, yes, I disagree with many things Trump says and Trump does. Fundamentally, that's bound to happen when I consider myself a strong left-leaning individual. But what he pulls is acceptable. It's not good, but it's acceptable.

The day where he'll gut LGBT rights, the day where he'll imprison people sorely on the color of their skins, the day where Trump will disregard women as inferior, the day where Trump will declare WW3, the day where Trump basically becomes a monster, I will be body and soul against him.

However, stop deluding yourself as though it's happening. It's not. Illegal immigrants are illegal -- I am thoroughly against deporting those that are but in name civilians of the US, but if they're incarcerated, I'm fine with it. I am thoroughly against discriminating against women, but quotes taken out of context that happened 12 years ago don't really makes me afraid. I am thoroughly against LGBT intimidation - and likewise, against his government removing the bathroom law - but he's not putting anyone in danger, he's not removing LGBT weddings and he's certainly not homophobic. And frankly, it's time the madness stops.

Some of what you are saying is not wrong, but fundamentally Donald Trump is a pathological liar. This has been proven countless times. So starting at that point, how you can trust ANYTHING he says/does when this is an indisputable fact that he constantly lies?

It is NOT unfair to paint Trump as a proven liar.

[Theodarzna]

You're leaving out the part where the figurative person you're talking about threatened to do those things.

Threats are words,

Actual destroyed countries exist. "We came, we saw, he died!"

[Azrile]

Some of what you are saying is not wrong, but fundamentally Donald Trump is a pathological liar. This has been proven countless times. So starting at that point, how you can trust ANYTHING he says/does when this is an indisputable fact that he constantly lies?

It is NOT unfair to paint Trump as a proven liar.

I don´t think he is a pathological liar as much as he just has learned the art of ´some people are saying´ as an excuse to repeat things. People told me I had the largest electoral college victory since Reagan, so it is ok for me to repeat it even if it isnt´true. He is also really good at spreading stuff, getting people to repeat it, then citing those people as ´people are saying´. For instance, the 3-4 million fraud votes was said by one person, Trump repeated it, then a ton of people repeated him, so now he can say ´everyone is saying´.. He did the same thing with Ted Cruz´s father. One crazy person said it, Trump repeated, everyone started talking about it, and then Trump said ´everyone is saying ´.... That is how he operates. He doesn´t see it as lying because he is not the first person who said it.

[xero5141]

Threats are NOT just words. If I come to your house and threaten to murder you and your family, those words have the weight to allow you to stop me with deadly force. If I threaten the President in a public forum, are they just words?

If you're saying that Donald Trump's words can't be taken with any kind of intent then why the fuck are you defending him? You want a president who threatens war crimes just to get the votes of people as radical as he?

[primalmatter]

I play to win. Ethics and morality were never a concern in that matter. They never have been. You assume two falsehoods:
1: that I'm a liberal
2: I have a moral compunction to take the high road.

1 does not imply 2 and 1 is false anyway.

I'm not sure you understand the consequences of discarding morals and ethics...

[Deleted]

Threats are NOT just words. If I come to your house and threaten to murder you and your family, those words have the weight to allow you to stop me with deadly force. If I threaten the President in a public forum, are they just words?

If you're saying that Donald Trump's words can't be taken with any kind of intent then why the fuck are you defending him? You want a president who threatens war crimes just to get the votes of people as radical as he?

Her point is that while Trumps 'proposed' policy would be abhorrent, it is not fundamentally distinct from current policy except that the current policy is more vaguely put, by a more eloquent speaker.
That's it, it's not just not a difference in scale, its barely a difference in degrees either.
Trust me if it was the Trump admin that put forth Obama's policies in regards to drone usage, everyone would be screaming war crime.

[Stormspellz]

Banning people from a handful of countries isn't a ban on Muslims coming here.

You know damn fuking well the executive order did more then that, and thats why it was shot down in court numerous times.

[Shadowferal]

I'm not sure you understand the consequences of discarding morals and ethics...

I suspect that we have something of an agreement here....omg..

Of course there is the question of just what constitutes morality and ethic...but it's a start.

[primalmatter]

I suspect that we have something of an agreement here....omg..

Of course there is the question of just what constitutes morality and ethic...but it's a start.

It happens from time to time. I am old enough to remeber compromise I am sure if we talked enough we would reach a middle ground we would both find slightly lacking but acceptable.

[Glorious Leader]

No, actually I don't have to do any of those things. Yay freedom! *does a dance while burning a Trump effigy* what does my freedom offend you? Tough shit! I had to listen to your kind bitch for EIGHT FUCKING YEARS!!. You think I'm going to sit down and behave? When your side accused my preferred leader as a secret-agent-muslim-communist-kenyan out to destroy America?

No, you can shove your peace love and happiness right up your goddamed ass. You spent 8 years bawling like a baby, doing everything you could to tear down everything we wanted to accomplish, even impeach the president on NO FUCKING GROUNDS AT ALL.

So no. Go blow yourself.

Also, say hello to my ignore list.

Youre damn fucking right. 8 god damn years of the most wild.insane fear mongering. You ever watch thar fucking clow glenn beck? Or any of the conservative radio goons? In fact thats how thats how trump got his foot in the door through birtherism nosense that the media covered and legitamized. Now these same clown ass conservative fucktards are all shocked that the media runs with any sensationalized bullshit about trump. Too fucking bad. The media is covering trump exactly as they should. At least with trump it isnt manufactured controversy like birtherism its legit trump is a fucking screw up.

[Theodarzna]

You know damn fuking well the executive order did more then that, and thats why it was shot down in court numerous times.

Was it a Muslim Ban?

[Stormspellz]

Was it a Muslim Ban?

in the literal sense no? in the practical sense yes. The various judges rulings made that rather clear.

[xero5141]

Her point is that while Trumps 'proposed' policy would be abhorrent, it is not fundamentally distinct from current policy except that the current policy is more vaguely put, by a more eloquent speaker.
That's it, it's not just not a difference in scale, its barely a difference in degrees either.
Trust me if it was the Trump admin that put forth Obama's policies in regards to drone usage, everyone would be screaming war crime.

That's probably true, I don't agree with those people either. Though there is a distinction that needs to be made clear between intending to do something and collateral damage. We're not talking about bombing a building and a few people unintentionally die. We're talking about targeting the families of terrorists and murdering them.

[primalmatter]

Youre damn fucking right. 8 god damn years of the most wild.insane fear mongering. You ever watch thar fucking clow glenn beck? Or any of the conservative radio goons? In fact thats how thats how trump got his foot in the door through birtherism nosense that the media covered and legitamized. Now these same clown ass conservative fucktards are all shocked that the media runs with any sensationalized bullshit about trump. Too fucking bad. The media is covering trump exactly as they should. At least with trump it isnt manufactured controversy like birtherism its legit trump is a fucking screw up.

You can't see the irony can you?

It honestly escapes you. You are trying to destroy Trump in the very thing that birthed him. You fools are the makers of your own misery...

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The point is trying to stop him before he does any of that.

I use the same logic when I speed through school zones.

"But officer I was trying to take out the next Hitler I swear!"

[Theodarzna]

in the literal sense no? in the practical sense yes. The various judges rulings made that rather clear.

How was it practically a Muslim ban?

[Shadowferal]

How was it practically a Muslim ban?

Judges have already said the EO was questionable for several reasons, one of which was
Judges raise religious discrimination issue
While the judges declined to weigh in on whether they think the policy is a form of religious discrimination, they did acknowledge that there were “significant” questions that needed to be explored further.

[primalmatter]

No it's the logic of removing a schizophrenic guy with an axe, high on angel dust, from kindergarten before he hurts someone.

No it is the same logic I use for speeding through school zones to kill future hitler...

He hasn't even made a utterance to do any of the things you want him stopped from doing...

[Sky High]

You can't see the irony can you?

It honestly escapes you. You are trying to destroy Trump in the very thing that birthed him. You fools are the makers of your own misery...

how is it ironic when faced with the fact that it worked out well for the republicans these last 8 years? either you're the one not getting it or you're simply trying to argue that one side has to be perpetually handicapped because "you should be the better man!".

[Theodarzna]

Judges have already said the EO was questionable for several reasons, one of which was
Judges raise religious discrimination issue
While the judges declined to weigh in on whether they think the policy is a form of religious discrimination, they did acknowledge that there were “significant” questions that needed to be explored further.

Acknowledging there is questions is essentially acknowledging some in the public are incredibly dense. That answers nothing.

Was it a Muslim Ban or not?