Neo-Nazi gets punched in the face while handing out racist fliers at campus

[Azadina]

Are you a navy seal with over 300 confirmed kills?

I'm Death itself, guess how many kills I have! *evil laugh*

[Tijuana]

Except I could turn that around and argue about what happens when Liberalism is the establishment and its identity is grounded in the urban centers. Rural conservatives would in due course feel and become the 'disenfranchised'. Urban Liberalism is (was) the franchise, and Clinton promised more of the same.

I think you can make a fair case for church in general fostering a stronger sense of community. But I think a broader factor here is simple demographics. Urban centers tend to be more liberal and most ran blue last election. You are least likely to know anyone you encounter on the street and while you may feel an affinity for a city as a whole you are most likely at best going to be invested in your immediate local community; the city is simply too big for anything beyond that. This is doubly compounded if you live in a satellite city or suburb - if you go into the city, or into an entirely different neighborhood/community, you have no direct investment in your immediate surroundings. You are less likely be directly impacted by any negative consequence of violent protest/riotous behavior beyond you yourself getting personally arrested.

By contrast in a more conservative rural town/small city you are more likely to be directly invested in your surroundings, or at least personally connected to someone who is. Any consequence of unrest will likely have immediate tangential, if not direct, consequences to your daily life or that of someone you know well. This is oversimplifying, but I think there's something to be said about gathering in an angry mob in a city well removed from your home where you don't know anybody around you and smashing a window, vs doing the same thing in your hometown while someone across the street goes, "Isn't that the Stevenson boy? Did you see him break that window? I'm telling your mother!" and it also turns out your friend works at the business whose window you just broke.

If urban life is the only cause for riots, why are there not always riots?

[Dug]

Uh...hrm. Trying to bend over backwards with you here. Hang on. It's hard to type upside down.

Ok. The difference is that a riot stems from a movement, and a gathering of people. Lone gunmen are generally just crazy people acting out on their own. Both are wrong. Both should be spoken against, in the strongest terms.

Instead of comparing apples to oranges, why not just make apples to apples comparisons? The Tea Party protests are easily the largest political protests since the 1960s. Yet, not one riot. Not a one. No property destroyed. No persons harmed. In fact, the joke was that when they left, the areas were cleaner than when they got there. Ask yourself this: Was it effective? How effective? Then, ask yourself this: Were the Ferguson riots effective? I think there is valuable lesson in that point. When you harm others and destroy property, at a minimum, you lose the people you harmed and whose property you destroyed.

Not sure what else to say. If Neo Nazi's went and protested with the riot and started vandalizing things certainly they would condemn it and you wouldn't want them lumped in with the nazis. In that you're lumping the left in with Antifa and Black bloc groups who, as I've said, the left condemns. They shouldn't be expected to just stop protesting because they can't control who tries to take advantage of their protests to destroy property.

[Tijuana]

Not sure what else to say. If Neo Nazi's went and protested with the riot and started vandalizing things certainly they would condemn it and you wouldn't want them lumped in with the nazis. In that you're lumping the left in with Antifa and Black bloc groups who, as I've said, the left condemns. They shouldn't be expected to just stop protesting because they can't control who tries to take advantage of their protests to destroy property.

Oh come on now. Come fucking on....

Are you legit trying to say that the dozens and dozens of riots in the past 10 years were all Antifa and Black Bloc? Get fucking real man....

[JohnBrown1917]

Most of these riots start off as protests and most stay protests, entire protests have not erupted into riots yet as much as right news media likes to portray it.

And again I'm talking about antifa and black bloc who are consistently condemned by the left and people peacefully protesting for painting them in a bad light. Because as I said, these people are opportunists and just want an excuse to break shit. The lefts huge protests give them the ability and sense of security to do so and then get lost in the crowds.

- - - Updated - - -



That is the joke yeah but ironic since those same people are also the ones complaining about a lack of work

I think its hard for some people to see the difference between the Far left(anarcho communists.. antifa etc..), Center right(Social Dems(i.e Sanders)) and the centre right(Liberals, most of the dem party). They are all and the same to some.

[Enthusiastic Steward]

If urban life is the only cause for riots, why are there not always riots?

I didn't say that, I said it was one possible factor in why riots happen where they do and involving whom. I never stated that this was the only cause, as that statement is absurd.

[Dug]

Oh come on now. Come fucking on....

Are you legit trying to say that the dozens and dozens of riots in the past 10 years were all Antifa and Black Bloc? Get fucking real man....

No but we haven't had a full city block destroying riots done by "the left" and their protests. It's always a small group of people (relative to the peaceful protesters) committing the crimes and the rest are lumped in with them. Not sure what they're supposed to do about that other than harsh words and some finger wags. They can't exactly stop them with force as that's illegal. Civilians anyways.

You have to admit right wing media exaggerates the extent of the damage and size of the groups of rioters.

[Tijuana]

I didn't say that, I said it was one possible factor in why riots happen where they do and involving whom. I never stated that this was the only cause, as that statement is absurd.

I mean, you need a lot of people to riot. That isn't exactly causational to me that there would be riots in the city versus the rural areas.

- - - Updated - - -

No but we haven't had a full city block destroying riots done by "the left" and their protests. It's always a small group of people (relative to the peaceful protesters) committing the crimes and the rest are lumped in with them. Not sure what they're supposed to do about that other than harsh words and some finger wags. They can't exactly stop them with force as that's illegal. Civilians anyways.

You have to admit right wing media exaggerates the extent of the damage and size of the groups of rioters.

So, the Ferguson riots were just a few bad actors who had nothing to do with the movement? Really man?

[TITAN308]

Are you a navy seal with over 300 confirmed kills?

I admit this made me laugh...

What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.

[JohnBrown1917]

No but we haven't had a full city block destroying riots done by "the left" and their protests. It's always a small group of people (relative to the peaceful protesters) committing the crimes and the rest are lumped in with them. Not sure what they're supposed to do about that other than harsh words and some finger wags. They can't exactly stop them with force as that's illegal. Civilians anyways.

You have to admit right wing media exaggerates the extent of the damage and size of the groups of rioters.

Naw man, the left is one whole hivemind!

[Dug]

So, the Ferguson riots were just a few bad actors who had nothing to do with the movement? Really man?

Relative to the amount of people that were peacefully protesting, yes. As you said, criminals gonna crime. If you don't agree then so be it I'm not necessarily trying to change your mind here I'm just having a discussion.

An easier argument could just be a pissing contest on which "side" actually causes more destruction: property destruction and some bruises vs. actual deaths but I'm not arguing that since it's stupid, and not because you hand wave away somebody clearly influenced and emboldened by certain right wing rhetoric but because you can obviously dig up somebody "left wing" committing extreme acts of violence too. Whether you intended it or not you claimed violence in the left is rising, its all same old shit different day to me.

[Endus]

When conservatives riot it usually ends in genocide.

Or, less hyperbolically, you get instances like the armed occupation of the Malheur wildlife refuge.

Maybe not a "riot", but a hell of a lot more heavily-armed than rioters generally are, and with much more violent rhetoric.

[THE Bigzoman]

Well just remember when its OK for one side to do it, don't complain when the other side hops on the same train.

You're not aware of how the game works now. There are no bad actions, only bad targets.

[Tijuana]

Protest?

You didn't answer the question.

And if you can't make any better answer. When a demonstration is against crimes against mankind and are forced to break the law to get their message through, is it then a riot?

When governments decide upon politics that contradict with the peoples interest. What are the politicians and their supporters doing when the demonstrations come? I'm sure you have figured what I'm fishing for by now. Personal opinion does not make fact, but that into the soup of our entire conversation in here. Now please, no more salad.

Actually, no. Not AT ALL. I have no fucking clue what you are on about. You are an EXTREMELY poor communicator, with all due respect.

When large groups of humans destroy property and disobey police, that is the very definition of a riot. Words have meanings. If you want to argue that some riots, in some situations, are justified, that is a very different matter entirely. But, that situation hasn't existed in the US for many years. We have voice here. We can vote. We can protest. We have free press. We don't need to riot to get justice, we have a fair and open society to begin with, if not one that has some faults.

- - - Updated - - -

When conservatives riot it usually ends in genocide.


Sure, and to keep the equation equal we will also randomly punch conservatives standing on a corner, telling people Trump is their President.
/s

Really, like when? Name a conservative riot, and we can discuss it.

Last I checked, the overwhelming number of lives lost to genocide were at the hands of the left: Stalin, Mao, Polpot...

Your side has the ugly history, not mine.

[THE Bigzoman]

See, the problem with your claim here is that your anti-communist screed isn't based in reality, it's based in McCarthyist propaganda. Literally all you're doing is demonstrating a complete failure to understand what "communism" is, and what it entails.

There's nothing about communist theory that requires a genocide of any particular group. The same is not true of Nazi ideologies.

Given that Nazi ideologies were largely state capitalist in nature, the equivalent to pointing at the behaviour of the Khmer Rouge and talking about "communism" would be looking at the Nazis and blaming "capitalism" for those actions.

Which is obviously and patently ridiculous and baseless. For exactly the same reasons, and in exactly the same ways, as your non-argument.

It doesn't state it explicitly. But it doesn't have too. Communism requires the usurping of the upper class to create a classless society. And every time this has been tried: every fuckjng time; people die. There's nothing Mcarthuist about something that is a valid inference at this point.

[Tijuana]

i'm not sure if this thread is big enough for us. Worst is on "all" the subjects here we agree, except where it first started and you just won't admit that. You would rather see me repeat it. My problem with you is how you advocate reason, but fail to take a stand. Much like a moderate, though what i guess is the problem is that you consider yourself right wing, but are put into the same basket as nazis and have a strong desire to distance yourself. You know very well what i'm on about, you have been on about the same all along. Have some courtesy dear very actively participating debatant. You could do better than pointing toward excuses of poor communication. Or of course, cling to your denial as i expect nothing else.

"some riots, in some situations, are justified, that is a very different matter entirely" very, very different. Huh?

No, I don't. I have no fucking clue what you are on about this entire thread. I don't support nazis.

You are literally the worst communicator I have ever encountered. Your posts are word salad. I have no fucking clue what you are getting at, with any of this.

[Mormolyce]

Talking to you guys is like talking to a brick wall sometimes. I fucking said it wasn't a legal issue in what you quoted. However, I personally find it odd that the CORE value of Liberalism, seemingly is no longer a concern among Liberals, except when speech they agree with is stifled. Bill Clinton does not feel the way you do. Bill Clinton quotes Voltaire: "I disagree with what you are saying but I will fight to the death to defend your right to say it."

It's just sort of sad that modern day Liberals don't even understand their own ideology.

You keep begging the question by asserting that free speech was stifled, when it was not.

I don't know why you're quoting Clinton quoting Voltaire at me. This guy's right to speak is not at question. The US has a much more generous interpretation of free speech laws than many other countries, allowing shitstains like neo-Nazis to post their beliefs in public without fear of GOVERNMENT reprisals. And there were none, and for better or worse nobody is challenging the right of neo-Nazis to post their beliefs in any kind of court battle.

Freedom of speech doesn't protect you from criticism. It doesn't even protect you from being punched for your beliefs - if it's a regular citizen punching you, that's plain old assault.

If a Bulls fan went into a Knicks crowd and started loudly telling everyone how shit he thinks their team is, and he got hit, that's not a free speech issue either. It's about as relevant as this is*.

*Disclaimer: my knowledge of US sport teams may be way off here.

[TITAN308]

Or, less hyperbolically, you get instances like the armed occupation of the Malheur wildlife refuge.

Maybe not a "riot", but a hell of a lot more heavily-armed than rioters generally are, and with much more violent rhetoric.

Yea but lets be honest, with a lot less damage and lasting impact to the surrounding community.

Riots do millions of dollars in property damage and hold an entire city hostage more or less.

I think comparing that to a bunch of old fat white guys hold up in a refuge no body barely goes to anyhow is a bit disingenuous if we are speaking within the context of scale or even number of occurrences.

Just so we are clear, fuck both instances, but comparing them is at best an extremely weak parallel to make.

If the best cross comparison you guys can come up with is a handful of OFWG's out in the woods playing militia, I think you are not going to convince anyone of anything.

[Deleted]

Oh, this was done by a member of the "black bloc"? Good to know! I hope you're providing the details that you apparently know to the local law enforcement so that they can apprehend and question this individual. Good sleuthing!

On topic - I'm glad to see punching Nazi's in the face is making quite a comeback this year!

There we go, mods that like seeing people that attend to a certain ideology punched in the head.
But if its fine like that, it should be fine all the ways right? When the far right reaches power i hope it will be ok when liberals will be violently assaulted, cos in that case it wont be hit and run, it will be close, personal and upfront combat. No one will run anywhere.

[Mormolyce]

Glad to know I can go punch Muslim street preachers in the face.

Go on, do it then. I have plenty of popcorn ready.