Concordance of the Legionfall..see you next expansion...

[IceMan1763]

You don't have to grind in uni to be a doctor?? So you don't have to do 5 years in Uni sitting in countless lectures, reading countless books, taking many tests, refining your knowledge and skills, then 2 years practicing to become a fully fledged doctor? 7 years isn't a grind?...... surely farming a bit of AP or AK for a few months isnt the end of the world if you want to be one of the best in the world?

Yes but time spent studying doesn't directly correlate to good test results and graduating. The correct comparison would be if grades in med school were strongly correlated to time spent playing checkers.

You may laugh at that, but grinding low level M+ keys for hours on end or doing laughably easy WQs has as much to do with being a great mythic raider as playing checkers does to being a doctor.

[Deleted]

Yes but time spent studying doesn't directly correlate to good test results and graduating. The correct comparison would be if grades in med school were strongly correlated to time spent playing checkers.

You may laugh at that, but grinding low level M+ keys for hours on end or doing laughably easy WQs has as much to do with being a great mythic raider as playing checkers does to being a doctor.

Really? Time spent studying doesn't correlate to better results? are you sure you want to say that?

[Deleted]

Wow isn't life, it's a game. That most people play for fun.

Is a person who was a top parser in previous xpacs but only played 20-30 hours per week casual? Because that type of player doesn't exist now, and it's not because they suddenly became unskilled.

playing 20 hours a week is plenty to be 54 traits by now if not a while ago.

i do 9 hours raiding, maybe 1 hour a day on inefficient things like WQ, random heroic, random BG, etc, and then ~5-10 M+ a week tops and i was 54 in early January. that's about 20 hours a week.

[Deleted]

He said that he doesn't have to grind *for a law degree* if he wants to be a doctor.

You missed the entire point.

I got exactly what he was saying but its irrelevant. Of course studying law wouldn't get you to be a doctor. They are 2 different things. But blizz has made AP totally relevant to top tier mythic raiding. So you have to farm it.

Its quite simple, if you want to be the best you should work for it, do something that others wont do. If you dont want to do it, then you wont be the best. Simples. Good like finding anything in life that you want to be the best at where you dont have to "grind" something........

[Thelxi]

I mean.. it's hard to act surprised at this.

- - - Updated - - -

I mean.. it's hard to act surprised at this.

[IceMan1763]

Really? Time spent studying doesn't correlate to better results? are you sure you want to say that?

I absolutely want to say that. And good job removing the word "directly" from what I said.

If one person studies for 8 hours and another studies for 12, the person with 12 doesn't automatically get better grades. You can just plain be better/more efficient at studying.

But, like I said, studying isn't even a good comparison because it actually does prepare you for the test. Do you honestly believe the activities most people do to grind out AP helps them "practice" being a better player? It doesn't. Those players might as well be playing checkers to prepare for raids.

[RoKPaNda]

Who cares about the top guilds? Blizzard doesn't even acknowledge them. They're the top 1% of the top 1%, they're completely irrelevant.

[Deleted]

I absolutely want to say that. And good job removing the word "directly" from what I said.

If one person studies for 8 hours and another studies for 12, the person with 12 doesn't automatically get better grades. You can just plain be better/more efficient at studying.

But, like I said, studying isn't even a good comparison because it actually does prepare you for the test. Do you honestly believe the activities most people do to grind out AP helps them "practice" being a better player? It doesn't. Those players might as well be playing checkers to prepare.

You dont get what I am talking about at all. I give up. Moan all you like about having to earn something with sacrifice and dedication. It will get you far!

[rda]

I got exactly what he was saying but its irrelevant. Of course studying law wouldn't get you to be a doctor. They are 2 different things. But blizz has made AP totally relevant to top tier mythic raiding. So you have to farm it.

Its quite simple, if you want to be the best you should work for it, do something that others wont do. If you dont want to do it, then you wont be the best. Simples. Good like finding anything in life that you want to be the best at where you dont have to "grind" something........

To get AP for raids you grind mythic instances. Mythic instances to raids are what law is to medicine.

It's even worse for PVP (substitute "PVP" for "raids").

Blizzard are doing these illogical things because they don't care about logic and don't really care about what you find fun either. What they care about is keeping you hooked and putting in hundreds of hours into no matter what activity (heck, fishing would do), so that you pay your sub for longer trying to chase the target that you are ultimately interested in. That's all there is to it.

Yes, you missed the point.

[IceMan1763]

You dont get what I am talking about at all. I give up. Moan all you like about having to earn something with sacrifice and dedication. It will get you far!

In case you can't tell, I just plain don't believe in this extra grind as a pre-requisite in order to be able to compete at the highest level. It proves nothing, it's not "hard work", "sacrifice", or "dedication", it's boring as hell and a clear attempt at sub retention by the dev team. You just want to think that players who are skilled enough to compete at that level, but simply don't have time for a crazy amount of extra out of raid hours are "lazy", "unskilled", or "unmotivated" because it helps your obviously shaky self esteem.

Are you so uncertain in your own skill level and ability that you think it's necessary to erect a huge time barrier to that level of content? Why does a more level playing field (let's say by hard capping AP gains so that a reasonable level of out of raid time is required) scare you so much? Would your life be ruined if you capped out after a few days play time in the week and had time to play an alt or *gasp* go outside?

[l33t]

Yeah... looks like disbanding my mythic guild in WoD was the right decision. I can enjoy the game now, instead of having to play mindless korean grinder 24/7. No wonders top guilds are disbanding in droves right now. The absurd AP grind is too much even for the most hardcore of the most hardcore.

Good job, Failzard. It is funny seeing devs turning on full retard mode again.

[Swiftshadow]

You don't have to do anything you don't want to.

I'm not a mythic raider. my group barely has 20 pple. Most I tanked up to was heroic 6/10 nh. I'm only at 38 traits for my guardian druid. I don't know if completing mythic raid really requires 54 traits.

Forced myself to complete the suramar questline (was 5/11).

Stopped farming mythics or even mythic + 2 months ago. In fact I don't think I ever attempted anything beyond +9. I don't want to. Why should I put myself through the Diablo III inspired affix nonsense if I don't want to. Right now at my ilevel I need to do like +12 and above for any upgrade. Will I do it? Hell no. I don't mind getting my upgrades once or twice a week during raids. That's my choice.

My point is, if ever you feel compelled to do something you don't enjoy in this game. Don't. Its a game, meant to entertain. If your raid group requires all this for admittance or acceptance, just find another group. Or just don't do mythic raids if you can't find such a group. It's not a must. It's just better gear disguised as purple pixels.

Or just play an alt. Hell, I have more fun tanking dungeons level 15 to 100 than any 110 activity now.

Or just play another game!

[Traveler Voltin]

If its a power bonus, then stuff is balanced around having it

[anaxie]

If its a power bonus, then stuff is balanced around having it

You expect plebs to understand what youre talking about. Might aswell be a chatlie brown teacher. Whompwhompwhomp

[jtstormrage]

Lots of people feel obliged to max out their main.

Whether they are end game raiders, a bit OCD, just proud or maybe they are just competitive.

These people (and I think there are lots, certainly almost everyone I know) will play one character until it is maxxed. Only then will they play alts and do fun stuff.

So no you don't "have to" max out your character or do anything. But for many people the enjoyment lies in getting the stage where you have, so you can relax and do some casual stuff, or even spend a few night per week playing another game, or not playing any games.

[rda]

I suggest they rename the thing to

Conclusion of the Legionfail

(Really, you can't make this shit up. Players: There's too much RNG and too many grinds. Spare us! Blizzard: Sure <adds more RNG and extends the grinds>.)

[Donald Hellscream]

It sure as shit beats getting 1% additional armor per point, so I am happy.

[ryanmahaffe]

Did I seriously see someone say WoW is a full time job now? Give me a fucking break.

People who think like this must be people with the most addictive personalities in the world.

[shaunika123]

You don't have to grind in uni to be a doctor?? So you don't have to do 5 years in Uni sitting in countless lectures, reading countless books, taking many tests, refining your knowledge and skills, then 2 years practicing to become a fully fledged doctor? 7 years isn't a grind?...... surely farming a bit of AP or AK for a few months isnt the end of the world if you want to be one of the best in the world?

I am flabbergasted at the sense of entitlement here where you believe you shouldn't have to work for something. If you took away any requirement to be a mythic raider anyone & everyone would be one. Maybe not a good mythic raider but a mythic raider none the less.

Also, maybe I am wrong but don't raid bosses drop AP? like lots?

a: YES, TO BE A DOCTOR, NOT TO BE A LAWYER, YOU STUDY MEDICINE NOT LAW, i have no problem with raiding a lot to be a good mythic raider, i have a problem with doing 5-10 times the amount on non raid stuff. if i had to be a 2500 rated arena player to be competitive in mythic raids would that be okay? no, how is this different?
b: there is no entitlement here, i dont want mythic kills handed to me, i want to work for the kills, but believem e (as you've obviously didnt see any mythic raids from how you're talking) doing 2-3 splits and raiding 4hours every night is work enough
c: they do, but 4 hours of progress with 0 kills will literally yield you 0 AP
d: the last time i had to grind this much for competitive raiding was in vanilla, i agree that you should have to commit a lot of playtime to be a competitive mythic raider, but you shouldnt have to commit 80 hours a week, especially not on something that isnt even a raid.

dont confuse entitlement with exhaustion, as i said, tons of mythic guilds stopping competitive mythic progress BECAUSE of the daunting AP grind and the legendary system(which is another issue)

amd amyway, why is it one or the other with you? cant the work be just enough? is it too much or none of it? why does me complaining about spending half my life on WoW to be competitive instantly lead to me wanting to spend none of it?

you havent the smallest idea how much fucking grind it takes to be a top tier mythic raider atm, i played more to effectively grind towards mythic raiding in these 5 months than the 4 years before that combined

maintaining 2 characters on 54 traits on multiple specs with lots of legendaries and high ilvl, IS TONS OF FUCKING WORK, way more than you had to do in the last 6-8 years

just listen to the exorsus interview about their NH progress, they really make it obvious how fucking exhausting it is compared to before

[lightofdawn]

i love it something to work for =), all the lazy bstards can go play minecraft

i get the joke, but ive seen people do incredible shit in minecraft... send the lazy people to hello kitty island adventure