Ion: It's the Myhic guild leaders fault for burnout

[IceMan1763]

Agree that raids are coming along sooner than they need to be. The other side of that is the noise from the opposite point of view that bellows about nothing to do if they are spaced out more realistically. Part of the answer to that is in this thread. The impulse and habit is to start on a new raid on day 1 of launch. That's only necessary for those that are racing toward world/realm first. Everyone else could relax a bit but habit is a very strong thing. A new raid every 10-12 weeks seems like a comfortable rate for progression guilds: enough time to finish and some time to farm before the next raid rolls in.

TOV should've been ready at launch. 7 raid bosses at launch is pretty pathetic. If that had been the case, the release schedule would've been pretty good. I think a new raid should come out every 4-6 months, approximately.

[Kelonaar]

"I have no clue about anything related to game design but believe my opinion on it is not only valid, but better than all of yours." - Iceman1763

TL;DR version of pretty much everything I've read in this thread.

[Korban]

He is not wrong.

People cried for content, they gave more content.

Not their fault you chose to farm it 24/7


And now the whole ToS is out on PTR lul.

[IceMan1763]

"I have no clue about anything related to game design but believe my opinion on it is not only valid, but better than all of yours." - Iceman1763

TL;DR version of pretty much everything I've read in this thread.

LOL... I haven't had one person say WHY my idea won't work.

The fact that fanbois like you can only come up with responses like these just shows how far you will go to white knight a game way past its prime. You literally can't even debate the topic so you resort to infantile attack mode. WOW deserves the few players who still remain.

[Sansnom]

I don't have access to the internal code, so I don't know what the base % chance of any 1 item to drop is, but let's say it's 5%. I would change nothing for the first 10 kills, then start going up by let's say 7% per kill after that. That gets you to 40% by kill 15. Then you go 10% for the next four kills to get to 80% and the last kill it goes up by 20% to reach the full 100.

I am willingly to believe this something that has been at the very least considered. It is a straight forward system. I think 100% is not something should happen. Maybe 50% or so. Of course people can still get unlucky. However, the one problem with this is that it only works well with personal loot.

The fact that people who are paid to design this game, admit split raiding is a problem, yet can't come up with a solution FOR YEARS I think reeks of incompetence or just lack of care.

Well, do you have a solution? It is easy to complain when something does not work. It is a different matter to fix.

One reason could be that while split raiding IS a problem, how big is the problem compared with other issues in the game? Maybe they really did not look into a solution because it is just not worth the time fixing it? They could have other things that is higher up in priority.

[IceMan1763]

I am willingly to believe this something that has been at the very least considered. It is a straight forward system. I think 100% is not something should happen. Maybe 50% or so. Of course people can still get unlucky. However, the one problem with this is that it only works well with personal loot.

No, it should be 100%. What is the point of keeping a few unlucky people in the mix? It's just gear. The game should be about the bosses and fellowship you get from beating an awesome fire breathing dragon as a team, not the gear. The system I suggested would be fine as long as they released raids every 4-6 months.

Well, do you have a solution? It is easy to complain when something does not work. It is a different matter to fix.

One reason could be that while split raiding IS a problem, how big is the problem compared with other issues in the game? Maybe they really did not look into a solution because it is just not worth the time fixing it? They could have other things that is higher up in priority.

I suggested the fix already... you literally just commented on it. Perhaps they did come to that conclusion, but I still see it as laziness. It's really not that hard of a problem to fix. Maybe if they weren't pouring time into unpopular features like garrisons to try to make this a Facebook game or the oh so hated legiondaries they could've spared some to address split raiding?

[Kelonaar]

LOL... I haven't had one person say WHY my idea won't work.

The fact that fanbois like you can only come up with responses like these just shows how far you will go to white knight a game way past its prime. You literally can't even debate the topic so you resort to infantile attack mode. WOW deserves the few players who still remain.

What idea? You mean the half-assed Personal loot with bad luck protection?

1. Split runs are not the only place where you feed gear to certain players. Any progression oriented guild (with competent leadership) will use a loot council style to give gear to the player who would most benefit the raid with it. Personal loot simply doesn't have that option.

2. "After 20 weeks of farming a boss you'll be guaranteed to have the item you want" So by the end of the raid tier when it doesn't fucking matter? Most people will have cleared the content they're aiming to well before that.

3. Personal loot is shit for any group other than a pug or a group of whiny loot obsessed players who'll complain that they lost the roll and they deserve the item more.

4. Back luck protection is already a part of bonus loot and it has obviously been so helpful so far. (Hint: the later half of this point is sarcasm)

When you can refute those points I'll be sure to waste more time shooting down your ideas.

[theyanger]

I wasn't there but I heard it was adds fucking them up. Most likely lack of dps as well which they will fix in a few weeks runs of stuff.

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Your point being?

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They're close than 50% they will need more gear more tries and more of everything. Big deal so what? Stuff will come gear will drop and be upgraded and they will pass that dps check. And they will not burnout cause they're not farming maw

The only way anyone in a guild that can't get lower than 20% on krosus will ever kill that boss this tier, is by leaving that guild in the dirt.

[IceMan1763]

What idea? You mean the half-assed Personal loot with bad luck protection?

1. Split runs are not the only place where you feed gear to certain players. Any progression oriented guild (with competent leadership) will use a loot council style to give gear to the player who would most benefit the raid with it. Personal loot simply doesn't have that option.

2. "After 20 weeks of farming a boss you'll be guaranteed to have the item you want" So by the end of the raid tier when it doesn't fucking matter? Most people will have cleared the content they're aiming to well before that.

3. Personal loot is shit for any group other than a pug or a group of whiny loot obsessed players who'll complain that they lost the roll and they deserve the item more.

4. Back luck protection is already a part of bonus loot and it has obviously been so helpful so far. (Hint: the later half of this sentence is sarcasm)

When you can refute those points I'll be sure to waste more time shooting down your ideas.

1. No loot council necessary... that was hard

2. The point is they will have it for next raid tier, creating a more level playing field especially for dedicated guilds/players, exactly the type a good system should reward

3. That's just like, your opinion, man

4. Um yeah that system isn't like this one... so apples vs. oranges and such

[Tharkkun]

Because killing split raiding is equivalent to those things. Riiiiiiight.

I see you didn't take a second in your 6,000+ post to try to counter any of my proposed solution. Color me not surprised.

Here's the solution. Doing too much of one thing such as WoW is an addiction. Just like anything in this world. Get help if you can't control yourself. Blizzard doesn't need to put restrictions in a video game to help you act like an adult.

[IceMan1763]

Here's the solution. Doing too much of one thing such as WoW is an addiction. Just like anything in this world. Get help if you can't control yourself. Blizzard doesn't need to put restrictions in a video game to help you act like an adult.

I acted like an adult by quitting the game... so have many others... and so will many others.

Keep preaching though.

[Tharkkun]

LOL... I haven't had one person say WHY my idea won't work.

The fact that fanbois like you can only come up with responses like these just shows how far you will go to white knight a game way past its prime. You literally can't even debate the topic so you resort to infantile attack mode. WOW deserves the few players who still remain.

It's nice that you've attempted to create a controversy where one doesn't exist. You admit yourself you're not part of the group that's affected by playing too much yet you've tried to champion yourself to their defense. Then you call people white knights? Look in the mirror man.

[Kelonaar]

1. No loot council necessary... that was hard

2. The point is they will have it for next raid tier, creating a more level playing field especially for dedicated guilds/players, exactly the type a good system should reward

3. That's just like, your opinion, man

4. Um yeah that system isn't like this one... so apples vs. oranges and such

So your points can be summarized as:
1. Gimping your groups performance cause you're too lazy
2. The only point of loot is for the NEXT raid
3. My opinion is right, so your's has to be wrong
4. If you would take the time to explain the system you propose, again, I'll be sure to shoot that idea down. As of right now, all I have to go on is a design sloppier than a 2-year-old's coloring book.

[IceMan1763]

It's nice that you've attempted to create a controversy where one doesn't exist. You admit yourself you're not part of the group that's affected by playing too much yet you've tried to champion yourself to their defense. Then you call people white knights? Look in the mirror man.

I quit because I'm a former mythic raider dismayed by how awfully designed several of the game systems are. I have every right to continue to speak the truth about awful design decisions like not addressing split raiding, not capping AP, not capping M+ loot, and legiondaries. This could have been a good xpac, and the fact that it's not lies solely in the laps of the devs, not the mythic raiders who hate these systems.

The fact casuals can't accept that there are other types of players says something about you, not me. The changes I've suggested would have zero effect on the average player.

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So your points can be summarized as:
1. Gimping your groups performance cause you're too lazy
2. The only point of loot is for the NEXT raid
3. My opinion is right, so your's has to be wrong
4. If you would take the time to explain the system you propose, again, I'll be sure to shoot that idea down. As of right now, all I have to go on is a design sloppier than a 2-year-old's coloring book.

I explained it plenty. If I were a dev, I would take the time to iron out every detail. Doing it from where I stand now is pointless. Devs don't listen to any feedback except the voices in their heads telling themselves how awesome they and their shitty ideas are.

[Tharkkun]

I acted like an adult by quitting the game... so have many others... and so will many others.

Keep preaching though.

Why would we quit when we're more than capable of having self control? Are you trying to say that playing video games is unfit for an adult?

[Baconeggcheese]

Agree that raids are coming along sooner than they need to be. The other side of that is the noise from the opposite point of view that bellows about nothing to do if they are spaced out more realistically. Part of the answer to that is in this thread. The impulse and habit is to start on a new raid on day 1 of launch. That's only necessary for those that are racing toward world/realm first. Everyone else could relax a bit but habit is a very strong thing. A new raid every 10-12 weeks seems like a comfortable rate for progression guilds: enough time to finish and some time to farm before the next raid rolls in.

The "nothing to do" argument which was shared by basically everyone including the mythic raiding scene was almost entirely about wod having moved the entire reward structure of non-raid content into the mission table. That issue had to do with everything except raids (as much as people wanted to blame raids).

The rate blizzard has stated repeatedly for being optimal is 4-6 months. They've also conceded that they didn't give MSV enough time to breath and next time they would let the raid sit for a while longer, then they released BRF very quickly after highmaul making the exact same mistake, to which they conceded they released it too quickly, and then we have legion where they've released a raid every 2 months since the first which is the most egregious its been.

Mythic guild burnout has been the highest at the start of the last 3 xpacs, we've seen it consistently happen. Even in wod, when there was nothing else to do besides raid. I don't find that to be a coincidence from my side of the fence. Everything about this xpac would be far more manageable from the mythic raiding perspective if they hadn't overloaded us with raids too quickly. They did make the mistake of making the final trait not scale exponentially, which they're fixing with 7.2. But even that mistake aside, everything would have been far more manageable had they given us a proper amount of time between raids instead of 2 months.

[Tharkkun]

I quit because I'm a former mythic raider dismayed by how awfully designed several of the game systems are. I have every right to continue to speak the truth about awful design decisions like not addressing split raiding, not capping AP, not capping M+ loot, and legiondaries. This could have been a good xpac, and the fact that it's not lies solely in the laps of the devs, not the mythic raiders who hate these systems.

The fact casuals can't accept that there are other types of players says something about you, not me. The changes I've suggested would have zero effect on the average player.

My guild raids Mythic as well but since we're an extremely low pop server we don't typically progress to the end because recruiting sucks. We do 2 days a week and will be starting Mythic shortly. We don't buy in to the bullshit of having to race, split kill, farm mythic+ till our eyes bleed, etc, etc. We put reasonable limits in place and bring our A game 6 hours a week.

It's been working now for 4 expansions. I feel sorry if you fell into the addiction trap but you don't need to do any of that stuff you mentioned to enjoy raiding.

[Kelonaar]

I quit because I'm a former mythic raider dismayed by how awfully designed several of the game systems are. I have every right to continue to speak the truth about awful design decisions like not addressing split raiding, not capping AP, not capping M+ loot, and legiondaries. This could have been a good xpac, and the fact that it's not lies solely in the laps of the devs, not the mythic raiders who hate these systems.

The fact casuals can't accept that there are other types of players says something about you, not me. The changes I've suggested would have zero effect on the average player.

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I explained it plenty. If I were a dev, I would take the time to iron out every detail. Doing it from where I stand now is pointless. Devs don't listen to any feedback except the voices in their heads telling themselves how awesome they and their shitty ideas are.

I concede the argument to you. I'm not equipped to argue against stupid.

Nobody here is trying to tell you the the game doesn't have flaws. That would be moronic. But this whole time you've just bashed on the devs, stated that you can do it better but you simply don't have the time to waste doing their work for them, and then proceeded to waste your time being stupid on the internet. Well played sir.

[Deleted]

WOD

"OMUGUD NUT INUFF CUNTENT!"

LEGION

"OMUGUD SO MUCH CUNTENT!"

get fucking real guys

[Deleted]

The life as hardcore raider has changed a lot and the investment or rather the necessary engagement in Legion is like 1000000% than ever before.

The raids itself doesnt changed a lot. As a hardcore raider you are usually raiding every day in the first weeks of the new content, so it doesnt matter if you do split raids or whatever. The main problem is the stuff what must be done besides the usual progress raid time.

In any patch before it took maybe ~2 or 3 days per character to level to new cap + equip your character with BiS pre raid + completely prepared with consumables and then the only way to improve your character was just raiding. After the progress it took maybe 2 days per week to reclear the instance + split raids in lower difficulties. Until the next progression phase, you have usually months of casual play as hardcore raider.

Now its a full time job even besides the progression phase due to the ap system and wf/tf system (and maybe the legendaries if you are a very unlucky guy without a proper leg until now or new legendaries got implemented which are imba and worth to aim for). Each of your progress relevant character requires so much time off raid / off progress its not worth anymore. Furthermore we are all very happy that new raid content is given quite quickly, but combined with all the full-time-job-stuff, you have no time for RL anymore.