Over 2000 guilds stuck at 3/10 mythic, was tuning 7 bosses to 54 traits a mistake?

[noladrew]

No, because once they get more gear 54 becomes less needed.

Actually, as you near and eventually reach 54 traits, the more your gear and stat itemization is worth. The buff from the artifact is multiplicative against your base damage output (gear+skill)... If your group as a whole went from somewhere in the low 40's up to the low 50's in the matter of a week, everything would be drastically different and extremely noticeable to say the least.

[Deleted]

The raid is easy enough, not sure what the issue is here.

[Advo]

Mythic skorpyron is far too easy, even for a gift boss.

The other two are mostly good for their place, with trilliax being somewhat too easy.

It's because trilliax is somewhat easy that this wall has developed. The gap between trilliax and boss #4 is somewhat too large right now. And if there's going to be any further moves, its going to be bringing bosses 4-7 down slightly.

[Toastyame]

I feel more guilds need to work on Botanist instead of Spellbade/Krosus. Even Tichondrius seems easier for some guilds when you break down wipe count.

[Osmeric]

Mythic is supposed to be difficult.

It's bizarre that you (and others) think this is a valid argument. Just because something is intended doesn't mean it actually works. That's why Blizzard often changes what things are supposed to be. Design philosophies are guidelines, not suicide pacts.

[Deleted]

54 traits are absolutely needed to make the dps check for any boss beyond trilliax. Pretty much every boss after Trilliax is actually a dps check, once u have all you need from the 1st 3 bosses and farming trash, the only way up is with wep traits...

Absolutely not, stop spreading lies

[MyndZero]

There aren't even 2000 guilds IN mythic NH

[Osmeric]

There aren't even 2000 guilds IN mythic NH

https://www.wowprogress.com/encounter/skorpyron-mythic

[MyndZero]

https://www.wowprogress.com/encounter/skorpyron-mythic

I stand corrected. I going through the page by page option on the main page site, and it glitches at some point, guess I didn't clue on that for that page it jumped to normal from mythic... corrected itself the next page.

[Nahela]

The main problem is the mechanical checks go from 0 to 100 between boss 3 and boss 4. Realistically, most guilds stuck at 3/10 are struggling to field that 20th reliable player. Until you dramatically overgear something (which, in this day, is a much longer trek than it used to be), most Mythic boss pulls are over with a singular failure. When one person's concentration lapses for 1 second, that attempt is over for 20 people.

This in itself isn't a bad thing, but the issue continues to be that there's no ramp up. The first 3 bosses are supremely easy, Chronomatic has the only real coordination check and it's easy to simply overpower that with numbers. Trilliax has coordination-based wipe mechanics, but the boss is beatable with mistakes. Krosus basically isn't, though others might be now with the nerfs. It's the same cliff we've seen in most raids since WoD.

The game just isn't designed to teach players to be better. Nighthold comes closer than previous tiers in that every boss gets a new mechanic with each difficult. That by itself is a huge improvement over previous tiers, but unfortunately there's still a enormous gap between bosses of the same difficulty level. LFR makes it almost literally impossible to wipe and Normal is way undertuned, so the number of new raiders coming into Heroic and Mythic is dramatically low. Either someone's a good player to start or they simply don't have the content available to improve. A lot of guilds are getting stonewalled in Heroic this tier because the jump from Normal to Heroic is insane.

TL;DR - It's overtuned, but not for the reasons people think it is. Raw numbers are only helping the top 1% (or fewer) and have almost no effect on everyone else, which is why so many are getting stuck.

[DakonBlackblade]

The main problem is the mechanical checks go from 0 to 100 between boss 3 and boss 4. Realistically, most guilds stuck at 3/10 are struggling to field that 20th reliable player. Until you dramatically overgear something (which, in this day, is a much longer trek than it used to be), most Mythic boss pulls are over with a singular failure. When one person's concentration lapses for 1 second, that attempt is over for 20 people.

This in itself isn't a bad thing, but the issue continues to be that there's no ramp up. The first 3 bosses are supremely easy, Chronomatic has the only real coordination check and it's easy to simply overpower that with numbers. Trilliax has coordination-based wipe mechanics, but the boss is beatable with mistakes. Krosus basically isn't, though others might be now with the nerfs. It's the same cliff we've seen in most raids since WoD.

The game just isn't designed to teach players to be better. Nighthold comes closer than previous tiers in that every boss gets a new mechanic with each difficult. That by itself is a huge improvement over previous tiers, but unfortunately there's still a enormous gap between bosses of the same difficulty level. LFR makes it almost literally impossible to wipe and Normal is way undertuned, so the number of new raiders coming into Heroic and Mythic is dramatically low. Either someone's a good player to start or they simply don't have the content available to improve. A lot of guilds are getting stonewalled in Heroic this tier because the jump from Normal to Heroic is insane.

TL;DR - It's overtuned, but not for the reasons people think it is. Raw numbers are only helping the top 1% (or fewer) and have almost no effect on everyone else, which is why so many are getting stuck.

Oh my, someone who actualy understands the problem for once. Its the total lack of a proper difficulty curve that is the main issue on NH. We get 3 bosses so easy they are almost a joke, than the other 5 are so much harder theyre harder than the 3 first ones even if you were to figth all 3 at the same time, with Star Augur being rather ridiculous numberwise. I disagree with you on the part you say NH makes it better, NH has one of the worst difficulty curves Ive ever seen and the gap beteween normal and heroic is infinite. They got it quite right in Foundry and Siege of Orgrimmar so they certainly know how to do it, but they messed it up on an epic scale here.

[KaPe]

I wouldn't really say it's purely 54 traits that's a massive issue when going beyond 3/10. Krosus is a pretty hefty DPS check, who also does enormous amount of raid damage, thus "needing" extra stamina from Paragon traits. Still, it's not like most people are wiping on 1% and blaming it purely on raiders who didn't cap their artifact.

You might say he's not a complicated boss, but the mechanics get pretty punishing when compared to previous one. Missing a exploding robot on Trillax will hurt a lot, but probably won't wipe you. It's also pretty obvious mistake that has zero randomness involved. Missing couple adds on Krosus, however, will get you destroyed - I'm pretty sure the majority of wipes happen around the second wave. Landing a orb a little too close hurts like hell. Last platform has nasty damage combos where every little bit of extra stamina counts.

The issues, however, go deeper than this. Some classes are really bad on this boss and this also includes tanking. Have a duo of preferred tanks? Congratulations, your healers get to chill with them and can easily focus on raid healing - while also adding a decent chunk of damage. You're not so lucky? Well, enjoy random deaths because you have to deal with much higher amount of damage than others. Oh, and it won't be changing until ToS, since it's "only because they made Nighthold bosses a bit more reliant on spell damage and don't feel like it means classs changes are needed".

Same with DPS. If you're not getting carried by few melee with their bis Legendaries and good parses, your casters will have to pick up the slack... and boy do they suck on this fight. Sure, there's the anecdotal "well, my friendly mage/warlock/shadow priest actually does well", but parses do not lie. Melee (as in, DH, Rogue and Warriors) carries this fight and if they can't do it, you're in for a rough ride.

Admitedly, if they wanted to nerf something, they should deal with Spellblade first. Not because she's too much when compared to Krosus, but simply because it would help with runbacks. However, she already had her nerfs and it's doubtful she'll be touched, so... The weird difficulty curve will probably remain in place until 7.2.

[kamuimac]

The game just isn't designed to teach players to be better. .

because people dont want to be better they want to have nice cozy mindless fun - that why raiding never was and never will be popular outside of lfr.

because majority of player do not look for any sort of chalenge in game they enjoy mindless zerging the f... of any content. then they have fun.

the sooner blizzard realises that the better for game.

[Ebalina]

No boss is tuned around 54 traits until you hit Augur, Elisande and Gul'dan.

Also the bosses after that are all mainly mechanical checks (Spellblade, Botanist, Krosus), and if you can't kill them it's probably because you have too many people dead due to not doing mechanics properly. Krosus does require good dps, but more than that it requires you to soak well, dodge beams and no deaths, and then it's a rather forgiving fight.

- - - Updated - - -



7.2 is coming next month. (RAID obviously not open until June).

No i do not believe that.

[Deleted]

with 910+ ilvl, no boss requires 54 traits

[Deleted]

pls link a guild at 3/10M with avg ilvl of 910 ilvl

https://www.wowprogress.com/guild_ilvl

1 guild has that

[Rafoel]

Currently, there are over 2000 guilds stuck at 3/10 mythic in the Nighthold which is quite a problem.

It is almost statistically impossible to kill any of the 7 remaining bosses without a majority of the raid having 54 artifact traits.

Do you see this as a big problem?

1000 guilds killed Krosus, the gear check Patchwerk boss.

650 guilds killed Aluriel, the pure execution/skill check boss.

But sure, 54 traits are the problem.

[Deja Thoris]

This thread has the usual retarded replies peppered in "hurr durr its mythic - its meant to be hard hurr durr!"

The issue is clearly the difficulty curve. The drop off from 3/10M to killing more is massive. If tuning we better it would be a gradual drop from boss to boss, not a plummet off a cliff from 3 bosses killed to 4. As usual most of the people contributing to the thread missed this.

[Osmeric]

This thread has the usual retarded replies peppered in "hurr durr its mythic - its meant to be hard hurr durr!"

The issue is clearly the difficulty curve. The drop off from 3/10M to killing more is massive. If tuning we better it would be a gradual drop from boss to boss, not a plummet off a cliff from 3 bosses killed to 4. As usual most of the people contributing to the thread missed this.

I especially like the guy who thought only 59 guilds should be considered actual mythic raiding guilds stuck at 3/10 in M NH. I love this attitude, since the end it will lead to is a mythic mode with such a small intended audience that it just gets removed entirely.

[Deleted]

Currently, there are over 2000 guilds stuck at 3/10 mythic in the Nighthold which is quite a problem.

It is almost statistically impossible to kill any of the 7 remaining bosses without a majority of the raid having 54 artifact traits.

Do you see this as a big problem?

I'm sorry. You're acting like this is the first time one of the earlier bosses have stumped a large amount of the guilds.