Sylvanas - The Lich Queen - Her only hope left?

[Verdugo]

Might be a clue.

I might not take words of brainwashed slaves seriously.

[Arrashi]

I might not take words of brainwashed slaves seriously.

But those are very valorous brainwashed slaves.

[Maxilian]

Odyn is freed now, so it would be even more hilariously unrealistic if she somehow got the Val'kyr now.

It would be nice to see Odyn lash out at the Undeads in general for their transgression after the Legion (Sylvanas for hunting down his pet, i mean the Valkyr queen and the Lich King for killing his followers)

[Friendlyimmolation]

It would be nice to see Odyn lash out at the Undeads in general for their transgression after the Legion (Sylvanas for hunting down his pet, i mean the Valkyr queen and the Lich King for killing his followers)

Forsaken could lay out a deathwing scale bowl full of random meat and Odyn would probably get drunk, stuff his face and name undercity most valorous place on Azeroth.

[Mehrunes]

i can see sylvanas becoming a bad guy...
stuff in cata (the raising the dead stuff "what is the difference between you and the lich king now" "i serve the horde" like... she knows shes becoming the lich queen... but she doesent care...) same with the island in the lake near loderan, yes people say "she gives them the choice to return to death" but i doudt that, as the people there are trying to stay alive, they hate the undead, then she sends you there to kill them and raise them, then suddenly once they are raised they are all for undead? wut?
yes we have seen some have their will like godfrey....

Basing character judgment on a mocking statement (one that was recognized as such by the person she was addressing no less) is rather weird. And we have Word of God on the matter of new Forsaken. No mind control takes place, no matter how much you doubt that.

but sylvaans has been doing ALOT of messed up stuff for along time now... specially with legion, attacking odyns (hes on our side) people, and working with helya (very much a bad girl, yes what odyn did was fucked up but shes been working with the old gods)

She never worked with the Old Gods for what we know. She only aided Loken. That Loken worked with the Old Gods is of no consequence to Helya. The very point of Loken approaching her in the first place was him trying to keep that fact hidden.

[Maxilian]

Forsaken could lay out a deathwing scale bowl full of random meat and Odyn would probably get drunk, stuff his face and name undercity most valorous place on Azeroth.

Well unless the Forsaken ask the Hoajin Pandaren for some help, we will only get a plagued Odyn.

I mean... the Forsaken are... well... not the best at tasting their own food.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Well unless the Forsaken ask the Hoajin Pandaren for some help, we will only get a plagued Odyn.

I mean... the Forsaken are... well... not the best at tasting their own food.

Maybe the blight will knock him out of the ongoing stroke he must be having since Helya originally locked him in the halls.

[Evangeliste]

Might be a clue.

A clue to what? You're trying to pin an opinion of an character to define actual lore that one person is enslaving another now? That's kinda laughable you're expecting your opinion to be canon.
And not to mention - what is she being a traitor for then? Ding ding, we don't know as I have repeated several times.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

A clue to what? You're trying to pin an opinion of an character to define actual lore that one person is enslaving another now? That's kinda laughable you're expecting your opinion to be canon.
And not to mention - what is she being a traitor for then? Ding ding, we don't know as I have repeated several times.

A clue that the person she was using the lantern on considered her to be traitorous, which makes it pretty clear it was an act of aggression, not some friendly ceremony of binding.

I know it's hard for her apologists and loyal fans to accept, but you guys are doing some serious mental gymnastics here if you wanna keep pretending she was not attempting to enslave that Valkyrie.

[Zulkhan]

I know it's hard for her apologists and loyal fans to accept, but you guys are doing some serious mental gymnastics here if you wanna keep pretending she was not attempting to enslave that Valkyrie.

To be fair, there's no evidence on that regard and that has little to do with "apologizing" Sylvanas. What we know for a fact is that Sylvanas wanted the power of the Val'kyr and that's something she spat on Eyir's face pretty blatantly. Beyond that, we start to navigate on a sea of guesses and assumptions that due to Blizzard's apparent lack of interest in further exploiring this particular storyline, we'll not be able to take the wraps from it off any time soon (if ever at all).

[Evangeliste]

A clue that the person she was using the lantern on considered her to be traitorous, which makes it pretty clear it was an act of aggression, not some friendly ceremony of binding.

I know it's hard for her apologists and loyal fans to accept, but you guys are doing some serious mental gymnastics here if you wanna keep pretending she was not attempting to enslave that Valkyrie.

I don't think you've really looked into the game and the lore see what's there... And when has binding someone ever been friendly? You bind enemies as CC in the game lol. Binding is always towards someone hostile to you, so where does friendly come into it?

And for the fourth time, you can't wholly state Sylvanas is going to enslave all Val'kyr because she's standing in front of one. Let me break it down to you so it's much more clearer for you. Firstly in the cinematic, don't you think Val'kyr would come to aid rather than Greymane if she controlled them? Secondly, Eyir did make Hyrja who answered to Odyn because in Trial of Valor raid, she's a part of his fight, she's also in his Halls of Valor instance which takes place in Odyn's Halls, in the same raid you see multiple Val'kyr kneeling on his bridge but where is Eyir? She appears at the end of the raid for your victory though. Thirdly, Eyir is a titanic watcher, (source:http://wow.gamepedia.com/Hyrja#Adventure_Guide - read the Background section. This appears in game.) Odyn too, both are titanic watchers. That's why Eyir could have called Sylvanas a traitor... because both Eyir and Odyn are on the same side meanwhile Helya is opposing Odyn and Eyir, it's then obvious Sylvanas is with Helya as she's holding Helya's lantern.
You know being a traitor in Eyir's eyes by going against Eyir's/Odyn's cause to leave the Broken Isles because Helya is the one holding them back. The titanic watchers will be probably more interested in bigger stuff away from Broken Shore like visiting Ulduar as Odyn said at the defeat of Helya in Trial of Valor.
This is an in-game snippet of Helya holding back Odyn.

And Havi is Odyn in disguise.

Valkyra are woman who aspire to be Val'kyr like Hyrja, she can evidently turn when proved worthy them but wouldn't she be called Val'kyr Queen if she controlled them? I don't see her embellished with this title. I know Wowpedia gives it to Helya through a description but rather see that in game for either or, Eyir has none and Helya has Sea Witch.
Bit odd though that being Queen you aren't noted for their control or call them when needed meanwhile someone else has them in abundance around them, one Eyir made is his obligating servant. We don't see any around Eyir aside when she makes one.
We actually know who has the final say on the control of the Val'kyr openly, but yeah, shoving a lantern in front of a titanic watcher who shows no actual evidence of controlling Val'kyr to therefore must mean Sylvanas must enslave them all... It seems pointless to assume that enslaving Eyir will automatically mean she will have to enslave all Val'kyr hereafter.
The reality could be she could be after Eyir alone to make more val'kyr like gain access to more like I said in previous posts to you. That doesn't mean new ones have to be enslaved either, it depends when they are born or where they are born, what Sylvanas does or says to them when they become Val'kyr. She could even get people loyal to her turned. Of course this is clutching at straws, but so is enslaving them all too.

Sylvanas flip flops, has no clear motives other than when you accept the quest from Sylvanas to start the cinematic she says in the description of this quest: http://www.wowhead.com/quest=38882/a...fe-for-undeath
"A new day dawns for Forsaken." If that clearly says let's enslave the bastards then I need to relearn English.

[Magnagarde]

I know it's hard for her apologists and loyal fans to accept, but you guys are doing some serious mental gymnastics here if you wanna keep pretending she was not attempting to enslave that Valkyrie.

Well said. I'd only change the "enslave that Valkyrie" to "enslave Eyir".

Then again, we're talking about a character that nobody has a problem with when she makes a deal with Helya, one of the major antagonists of the expansion. Like.. can it go worse? Yes, it can.. enslaving Eyir.

[Mehrunes]

I didn't say she's good in anyway shape or form actually so please don't making assumptions based on minimal exchanges, I just suggested that your ideal doesn't necessarily fit 100%.

A clue that the person she was using the lantern on considered her to be traitorous, which makes it pretty clear it was an act of aggression, not some friendly ceremony of binding.

I know it's hard for her apologists and loyal fans to accept, but you guys are doing some serious mental gymnastics here if you wanna keep pretending she was not attempting to enslave that Valkyrie.

Google what apologism means and stop using emotionally ridden words that you don't even understand to support your argument (which is a monument to fallacy even without that). And do link to a source saying that Sylvanas fer sure wanted to enslave Eyir. Because, you know, she could have also planned to hand her over to Helya in exchange for Helya's own Val'kyr or steal her power. The latter being, surprise surprise, what the only source on her plans actually says.

Well said. I'd only change the "enslave that Valkyrie" to "enslave Eyir".

Then again, we're talking about a character that nobody has a problem with when she makes a deal with Helya, one of the major antagonists of the expansion. Like.. can it go worse? Yes, it can.. enslaving Eyir.

Is "well said" some kind of code for selective reading, straw-manning someone, portraying one's own assumption as the one true truth and outright lies in the language of people eternally triggered by Sylvanas? Because @Evangeliste mentioned numerous times, even in what your hero @Peacekeeper Benhir quoted right there, that Sylvanas wasn't a good person in that situation. Look at all dat apologism right there mon. Whole mountains of it, amirite? Wait, no, if anything it's the opposite.

If one mastered the mystical art of reading and understanding English, they'd be able to notice the only contention about the situation Evangeliste has raised is that the idea that Sylvanas' goal was to enslave Eyir lacks solid proof. Which, you know, is factually correct. We don't know details of her bargain with Helya and since Eyir escaped before Sylvanas finished whatever she was doing, we can't know what she planned from that either.

But wait! We do have one source of information about Sylvanas' plans from one of her captains who knew about them! Which I think Evangeliste may have missed. http://www.wowhead.com/item=122570/c...ueens-reprisal Would you look at that, it says squat about enslavement. It says something else entirely, that Sylvanas wanted to steal that power.

So you can change things to "enslave Eyir" all you want, but all you're doing is pulling nonsense out of your ass that is not only unsupported by lore, but runs contrary to the only source we have on it, while touting it as canon. Just so you can once again whine about "Sylvanas apologists". In regards to a post that said she was up to no good. Well, if your desire is to be seen as a joke, that's your choice.

To be fair, there's no evidence on that regard and that has little to do with "apologizing" Sylvanas. What we know for a fact is that Sylvanas wanted the power of the Val'kyr and that's something she spat on Eyir's face pretty blatantly. Beyond that, we start to navigate on a sea of guesses and assumptions that due to Blizzard's apparent lack of interest in further exploiring this particular storyline, we'll not be able to take the wraps from it off any time soon (if ever at all).

Zulkhⱥn please. It has everything to do with being an apologist. Nay, not just that. An apologist that masturbates to Slyvanus. There's totally whole boatloats of lore specifying her plans in exactly that direction. You just don't want to see that because it would make it harder for you to daydream about Salvoinis.

Received Infraction.

[Captain Douchebag]

Salvoinis.

That is quite possibly the best way I've ever seen her name spelled.

Great memes.

[fabersoul]

I think her end will be that she (maybe and her people) will get her real body back and then die gracefully and accept death. no one wants to live forever really

[Friendlyimmolation]

I think her end will be that she (maybe and her people) will get her real body back and then die gracefully and accept death. no one wants to live forever really

1. She has her own body, as do the forsaken.

2. Says you.

[fabersoul]

Real meaning we normally perceive as "alive". would you honestly want to live forever? think about it. i would want to live for a few thousand years maybe but not forever.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Real meaning we normally perceive as "alive". would you honestly want to live forever? think about it. i would want to live for a few thousand years maybe but not forever.

When the alternative is hell or the unknown, Many people would chose to live forever.

[Evangeliste]

Finally someone else that gets what I'm saying!

I have actually seen that log, that totally slipped my mind with correlation to what I was speaking of. This also explains like the random ship you sink on the Alliance side for Stormheim world quests really because they were separated.

[Zandalariprelate]

I am tired of Sylvanas lich queen(even in hots she made a joke about that) Let's do new threads about jaina killing Bolvar and becoming the new jailor of the dammed only to just resurrect Arthas, damm why blizzard didn't make it already?