Is Nighthold too easy on melee dps?

[Deleted]

Boss
Melee
Ranged

Skorpryon
Slash, Shockwave*, Blast
Shockwave, Blast

Anomaly
Bombs*, Rings, Orbs, Interrupts
Bombs, Rings, Orbs, (pity interrupt because a ranged might do it)

Trilliax
Cakes*, Beam, Sludge, Slash
Cakes(mostly melee still), Beam, Sludge

Spellblade
Felsoul, Anhilation, Fire mark, Orbs
Felsoul(to some extent), Frost mark*, Fire mark, Orbs

Tichondrius
Swarm, Beam, Hiding behind pillars*
Swarm, Beam, Hiding behind pillars, Marks

Star Augur
Soaking Frost, Ejections*, Frost Marks*, Nova*
Soaking Frost, Ejections*, Frost Marks, Nova

Krosus
Slam, Pitch*, Beam
Pitch*, Beam

Botanist
Adds, Flare, Destruction*
Adds, Flare, Font, Destruction *(for some classes and specs)

Elisande
Adds, Interrupts, Ring*
Adds, Ring*(every now and then), Orb(usually hunters so no *)

Guldan
Adds, Slashes, Eyes, Interrupts, beams, Bonds*, Souls*
Adds, Beams, Bonds, Souls

An asterisk "*" denotes mechanics that will result in at least 4 seconds of dealing no damage aside from dots. I might be missing some but point is theres really only three or so fights that favor melee. Either way melee have been cucked for years just let us have this one.

Bolded some mistakes.

[Frolk]

Melee gets it easy for once, everyone freaks the fuck out about it.

>_>

[Piwielle]

First bosses sure, but Etraeus Elisande and Gul'dan are pretty much the same for melee and range

[Bakis]

Playing melee is like kindergarten for special children in regards of mechanics, or shall I say tunnel boss 24/7.

[Deleted]

It's too easy, period.

[Joryy]

First bosses sure, but Etraeus Elisande and Gul'dan are pretty much the same for melee and range

I lol'd.

Star augur is pretty fair, but Elisande and Gul'Dan are the swingiest fights in the tier. 4/10 and 10/4 being the average comps.

[Deleted]

The problem with this mindset comes on fights like M-Krosus. The whole idea with this fight, in terms of soaking puddles, is to soak from back-to-front, and let adds spawn in the front. If you're not stacking ranged, you're going to need melee to run way past the middle of the bridge, sometimes, to soak puddles.

And melee bitch about this, endlessly. They bitch about being out of range of the boss, disregarding the fact that ranged are even further back, and also out of range of the boss. Not once did I hear a ranged bitch about being out of range of the boss during the first two bridge soaks - they just did it. The melee complained the whole time.

Our ranges bitched about it, the pools furthest away from the boss are now soaked by DH's, so that the ranges can keep doing damage. Works fine so far.

[Goldenboy1]

- - - Updated - - -
Looking at only #1 and #2 rank for a fight might be a bit of a stretch. For example on anomaly there's 1 frost mage and 5 fury warriors in the top 20, but you rank frostmage higher than fury war.

Also, cakes is mostly melee on Trilliax? While not even listing the cleaners that blow up and have to be soaked? No mention of orb of annihilation for krosus? Orb is "usually hunters" for elisande? When there's 4 of them coming down every time? Apparently only melee has to avoid the beams on gul'dan, no mention of the mechanic on him (Flames) that is the worst for melee and interrupts only as a melee thing when the first interrupt on the adds is pretty much always range?

Your list is quite obviously from a melee perspective and perhaps even from a "only watched video of this" perspective.

Hunters or mages get the orbs on Elisande, or at least are supposed to. With blink and disengage this is a minimal dps loss unless they are unlucky with positioning.

Ranged>melee for cakes, at the start of the fight they usually get full first and do not need to avoid pools while trying to obtain cakes and can stutter step. However, melee generally need to avoid pools and sprint away dealing near zero effective dps. You do get melee ranged cakes but, there usually at least four melee that need to run out. And again, a ranged dps can stutter step to handle exploding bots, and have some dots. However, the sterilization may be a pain either way you stand still for more than long enough to not hurt your dps that much. And again, a ranged can continue to dps after handling a bot but melee need to run back.

Orb of annihilation effects one ranged dps, I will give you that one. However, with a lock in group this gets somewhat easier for most classes which is why I defined "impeding dps" as more than 3 seconds rest.

On guldan, a melee can be isolated from the three adds due to Fel Flux if they were distracted or just focusing one add who then died before the beam went up. Ranged do not have to deal with this, yet another example of why I said 3 seconds and not just an interruption to damage. For flames, it is the same deal, a ranged can get back to dealing damage a hell of alot faster than melee. Maybe your guild does the first interrupt from a ranged but, our group keeps it melee. Do you have a demonhunter? If so their interrupt provides fury and is ranged which is why it is not needed for ranged to interrupt even if the add spawns away from melee, atleast for my guild.

My list is from a melee perspective however, I also play mage and warlock alts for heroic 10/10 farm. I am a mythic raider, I would appreciate it if you dont make assumptions it just implies a rude and condescending tone is all.

[coño]

NH is oriented around having range and this is why I believe melee has such an easy time. Our guild was melee raid heavy and we couldn't clear anything. It wasn't until we picked up 4-5 ranged DPS that allowed us to have the burst and consistent DPS needed for NH.

We were stuck on Star Auger for the first 3 weeks on normal because we had 2-3 range DPS. I wish for ranged sakes that movement didn't kill their DPS so heavily.

[Kirbypro]

If we go with a fight like Thok, where melee will just get totally destroyed vs a fight like Botanist, where melee literally have to do nothing but faceroll dps, I'd say NH is leaning towards being pretty good to melee.

[Piwielle]

I lol'd.

Star augur is pretty fair, but Elisande and Gul'Dan are the swingiest fights in the tier. 4/10 and 10/4 being the average comps.

Sure melees are better, but it's not easier for them

[Hoeth]

yeah and that is a good thing. Atleast for progress and peace of mind.

In general melee players are, in terms of maturity, patience and skill, inferior to their range counterparts.

It is a bit on the extreme side in LEGION and especially Nighthold that ranges have to do all the work while melees are tunneling the boss, but that is only logical considering how easy it is to perform well as a melee, to churn out good dps compared to range players.

Some bosses are a bit too much like Gul'Dan, mythic trilliax and a few others where it basically comes down to : "melee players you can hurr durr the boss while the range players master all the mechanics and make sure we don't wipe on the boss".
Sadly on some bosses like Botanist it happens too often that melee players are getting hit by the lashers while they are drooling on their keyboard, but thankfully Blizzard realized that with LEGION and the introduction of a new melee class, the Demon Hunter, that a very big majority of the "noobs" are ultimately drawn to that new shiny immature "I am so cool I am illidan" class that they made sure the biggest parts of the difficulties that raiding holds are best left for the range players.

Overall I think Blizzard did a good job. Sure it is annoying as a range player to carry those guys, but I would rather have it the way it currently is compared to a world where we need to rely on melees playing properly.
I for one am happy that Blizzard, and also raidleaders, are letting the melees do what they do best. Tunneling the boss and delight themselves over the damage meters where they always take the top spots for reasons beyond their comprehensive abilities.

No doubt you are a troll, but I'm going to bite anyway.

Maybe Blizzard will start creating fights where all the dangerous and relevant fight mechanics all occur within 5 meters of the boss while at the same time adding in an aura that makes all ranged specs do zero damage when they are within 15 meters of the boss. THEN all of your ranged "skill" will be shit and you can sit there tunneling while melee deal with all the mechanics. Then you can also deal with trying to get into pugs (even ones you outgear by 20 ilvls and have all mythic kills) as a ranged player when no one wants you, because you be inferior in terms of maturity, patience, and skill.

Sound good?

[Deleted]

No doubt you are a troll, but I'm going to bite anyway.

Maybe Blizzard will start creating fights where all the dangerous and relevant fight mechanics all occur within 5 meters of the boss while at the same time adding in an aura that makes all ranged specs do zero damage when they are within 15 meters of the boss. THEN all of your ranged "skill" will be shit and you can sit there tunneling while melee deal with all the mechanics. Then you can also deal with trying to get into pugs (even ones you outgear by 20 ilvls and have all mythic kills) as a ranged player when no one wants you, because you be inferior in terms of maturity, patience, and skill.

Sound good?

Thing is that you are already doing much more DPS than ranged (top guilds stack melee) when both can have 100% uptime. almost as if you were supposed to have those periods where you cannot damage the boss at all for things to be balanced.

But no, you cry and want 100% uptime and would rather die than give up tunnelling.

[Deleted]

Damn, clearly stopped raiding too soon - tables have turned in the grand melee v ranged saga. Have fun melee bros!

[DerelictNekropolis]

Tichondrius is really fun as an unholy dk. I've not had fun on a fight like I have on him since... I think in Naxx, KT's challenge combined with the mechanics melee had to pull off made it fun for me.

[Theholypally]

So I've played both roles throughout Nighthold now and I must say that melee have a much easier time as far as mechanics goes, perhaps too easy?

Have you fought Elisande yet?

[Deleted]

Trilliax, Aluriel and Botanist are all fairly boring for melee. The rest seem to be fairly equal to me. Melee are more likely to lose dps on Skorpyron if they are unlucky with shards, Anomaly is similar for both roles (though melee need to cover more ground and lose more dps from bombs), with Krosus unless you are very heavy with range some melee will have to soak in the middle (and melee have to run away from the slam/bridge collapse without losing too much uptime). Melee can soak on Tichondrius (and if the group is melee heavy can lose significant uptime to travel to adds), they need to move much faster for fel ejection and react very fast to the tank when he inevitably has to clear the melee stack (and on Mythic I assume that melee heavy comps are a nightmare with star signs).
Elisande is a mess for melee (and probably far worse in Mythic with Arcanetics doubling back) and Gul'dan is pretty similar for both (though melee rarely have to break bonds.

Melee certainly rarely execute special tasks. Simply put, unless a melee has a unique utility that simplifies a special task (like once upon a time, frost DK kiting in early Cata), using a melee for the task means removing his dps while using a range for the task means reducing their dps so even if the option exists for raid leaders, no raid leader will use them over range.
I mean melee cannot even offtank these days; several melee are quite squishier than range are (fury warriors say hi) and plate has lost most of the armor advantage. Melee can occasionally do such tasks to cheese a mechanic (like taunting Aluriel for the first tick and debuff application for Annihilate) but encounters aren't actually designed with these in mind (they are as I said, cheese).

Do not talk about not being able to do DPS while doing mechanics or running. You are doing more DPS on average than ranged to offset that. Stop with this argument please.

Again: your having to do mechanics as a melee has already been accounted for!