"Nobody knew health care could be so complicated"

[alexw]

Healthcare reform in the United States is anything but straightforward. As soon as you figure out a comprehensive plan to cover almost 400 million people, you then have to figure out how to get the insurance companies to buy into it.

Comparing it to Europe is also a mistake.

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Negative Ghostrider, the pattern is full.

The United States has never, ever, seen a more incompetent fool sitting in the Oval Office as we do now. Most of my friends would give away limbs to see Bush2 back.

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I couldn't agree more. And the best part is that he will fuck over most the very people who voted for him.

It's pretty easy. You put in a public option (medicare for all) that gradually hollows out the healthcare insurance industry from within as everyone moves over to the cheaper system. With that loss of size comes loss of power to the point where they can then just be regulated out of existence by mandating single payer coverage.

[cubby]

It's pretty easy. You put in a public option (medicare for all) that gradually hollows out the healthcare insurance industry from within as everyone moves over to the cheaper system. With that loss of size comes loss of power to the point where they can then just be regulated out of existence by mandating single payer coverage.

That is almost the antithesis of easy. I mean, I agree that your process would be a good one, but juggling the myriad of parties involved and making it both work when completed (i.e. over to single payer coverage) and while it's in transition is extremely complicated. As is our current system.

The point being, in the end in this thread, that Cheeto once again proved his idiocy. I think we can all agree on that.

[Zan15]

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/27/politi...ted/index.html



WHO WON TRUMP BINGO!?

but but wait....he had a great plan, the best plan....before he even got elected....

where is it?


oh that's right....its next to his non exsistant plan on the economy, isis, military, jobs, wall.....etc etc

[darkwarrior42]

What do you mean?
Perhaps it is you that are clueless if you are so easily manipulated.

You earlier stated, and I'm going to directly quote you here:

Notice that CNN stated he later added the "nobody knew....". That was part of another sentence. More likely than not that sentence was taken out of context and then placed beside the other just to give the other a little more merit. He did not state those two sentences in a row. CNN manipulated the way he stated what he said about ACA.

The OP then responded with multiple links to other sources, including a video link where you can hear him say exactly what CNN reported him as saying, word for word.

Do you have anything you would care to say in response to that? A retraction of your earlier statement, or perhaps a further justification for why you believe CNN's reporting in this instance was inaccurate?

[josykay]

Being president of a country and having to deal with complicated issues, where you can not just sign an EO, is hard? Who would have thought that. :P

[Zan15]

It's pretty easy. You put in a public option (medicare for all) that gradually hollows out the healthcare insurance industry from within as everyone moves over to the cheaper system. With that loss of size comes loss of power to the point where they can then just be regulated out of existence by mandating single payer coverage.

hope this public option has free healthcare for those whom are going to lose their jobs.

btw whom do you think administers medicare. Insurance industry. and they make a good profit of it too.
Most of the whole medicare system is administered by the insurance industry, the govt just sets the rules and the tax man collects the premiums.

so once you fix the problems of the big bad insurance companies what about the other 90% of the problems?

[Klingers]

Healthcare isn't complicated. Scrap the entire current system. Give every American citizen a baseline level of care where they can walk into an ER with a broken arm and not mortgage their house to pay for it. Charge a 1.5% or 2% federal levy on everyone's salary to pay for it. Have a secondary tier of private health insurance that people can pay for to go to private hospitals or pick their own doctors. Boom. Done and dusted. That was hard.

[Yuujin]

What do you mean?
Perhaps it is you that are clueless if you are so easily manipulated.

Oh man, sick burn! You got him! You're one of the special few who were smart enough (with Trump's tiny guiding hand of course) to figure out that the main stream media is bad! Put on your big boy pants! You're a winner! So many people are drones to the MSM, but you, you recognized their evil and now deserve to feel smart and special!

Seriously, who the fuck are you to talk about being manipulated?

[Zan15]

Healthcare isn't complicated. Scrap the entire current system. Give every American citizen a baseline level of care where they can walk into an ER with a broken arm and not mortgage their house to pay for it. Charge a 1.5% or 2% federal levy on everyone's salary to pay for it. Have a secondary tier of private health insurance that people can pay for to go to private hospitals or pick their own doctors. Boom. Done and dusted. That was hard.

so you are saying make the entire 1-2 trillion dollar industry non profit, easily, licky split?

cut all that profit, all those cost, all those jobs.

hmmm sounds easy, i mean hell whats a 30% drop in the stock market overnight because of your easy answer.

[alexw]

hope this public option has free healthcare for those whom are going to lose their jobs.

btw whom do you think administers medicare. Insurance industry. and they make a good profit of it too.
Most of the whole medicare system is administered by the insurance industry, the govt just sets the rules and the tax man collects the premiums.

so once you fix the problems of the big bad insurance companies what about the other 90% of the problems?

Those people who lose their jobs are an economic overhead currently. They contribute nothing and just make the system more costly. They will lose their jobs yes, slowly and over time, but that frees them up to do more productive work afterwards.

As for why medicare for all would be better - it simplifies the system. Currently there are dozens of companies each having multiple plans. It ends up as a bureaucratic mess with large numbers employed in overseeing it all. Get rid of that excess and immediately you remove 10% of the current cost of US healthcare.

As for the other problems - combining the purchase of all healthcare under one roof gives that buyer massive market power. It (the government) can then use that power to reshape the system to over time squeeze out the other inefficiencies.

[Z-Man]

i mean hell whats a 30% drop in the stock market overnight because of your easy answer.

So the market drops back to February 2013 and everyone gets health care? Deal. That's more than we've gotten from the last few 30% drops.

[anyaka21]

Isn't the complexity part of the problem? The current healthcare system in the US is an administrative disaster. Just getting information about what a plan covers is difficult at best, impossible at worst. You literally can't call your health insurance provider and ask "How much will this procedure cost?" They don't even know. So you just have to sign a blank check and hope it doesn't bankrupt you if you have a serious medical situation.

So yeah, it's fucking complicated, but it doesn't have to be.

I completely agree. There is also drug/pharma companies trying to stop states from legalizing marijuana because it hurt their Fentynal business, Arizona.

The entirety of healthcare in the US is completely fucked up because theu don't care about costs or cures, only money.

The beauty of a more Universal Healthcare system is that it flips the narrative because it becomes more about patients getting better and cures instead of symptom masking drugs, forcing people to use certain drugs by monipolizing life saving drugs like Epipens and raising their cost by 1000%+

Change that dynamic and you get a healthier, more productive society as well as an industry focused on cures and wellness.

[Zan15]

Those people who lose their jobs are an economic overhead currently. They contribute nothing and just make the system more costly. They will lose their jobs yes, slowly and over time, but that frees them up to do more productive work afterwards.

As for why medicare for all would be better - it simplifies the system. Currently there are dozens of companies each having multiple plans. It ends up as a bureaucratic mess with large numbers employed in overseeing it all. Get rid of that excess and immediately you remove 10% of the current cost of US healthcare.

As for the other problems - combining the purchase of all healthcare under one roof gives that buyer massive market power. It (the government) can then use that power to reshape the system to over time squeeze out the other inefficiencies.

i like how you keep saying easy, immediately and etc etc etc

removing 10% as quickly as you state will cost more money in unemployment, welfare and associated industries losing massive amounts of revenue/profit/jobs.

the amount of money you will have to pay for this loss will far exceed the so called "overhead which contributes nothing".

They hardly contribute nothing.


the correct move to make is a gradual transition to the WHOLE system not just the insurance industry.



p.s there is nothing simple about medicare. they have higher denial rates, bigger issues with providers, fractured system by geographical area, underfunded, and massive hidden administrative cost (i.e IRS does the billing/premium collection and its not included in medicare's overhead". Just no one will say shitty things about medicare because for fear of the old voting population

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So the market drops back to February 2013 and everyone gets health care? Deal. That's more than we've gotten from the last few 30% drops.

last time you had a 30% drop you had 11% unemployment.

glad you think its "nothing". people don't want to pay 700 bucks to make sure everyone has insurance, just wait till they have to pay 7000 because the unemployment rate went to double digits

[Deleted]

The first step is always to admit your mistake.

If you start on a lie you have already lost.

So all signs are good

Actually, he started off on a lie when he said during his campaign that he would repeal & replace obamacare with an alternative where more people get more coverage for lower costs without (as he admits now) having a clue on how to do it.

[Zan15]

Isn't the complexity part of the problem? The current healthcare system in the US is an administrative disaster. Just getting information about what a plan covers is difficult at best, impossible at worst.


You literally can't call your health insurance provider and ask "How much will this procedure cost?" They don't even know. So you just have to sign a blank check and hope it doesn't bankrupt you if you have a serious medical situation.

So yeah, it's fucking complicated, but it doesn't have to be.

You can get coverage information very easily. Online, phone call or even the plan booklets they hand out during enrollment.

As for how much, you can blame the provider for that one. they fought tooth and nail to prevent rates from being published and the govt caved. Blaming the insurance industry is really the wrong way to shake your fingers.

[Eats Compost]

I completely agree. There is also drug/pharma companies trying to stop states from legalizing marijuana because it hurt their Fentynal business, Arizona.

The entirety of healthcare in the US is completely fucked up because theu don't care about costs or cures, only money.

The beauty of a more Universal Healthcare system is that it flips the narrative because it becomes more about patients getting better and cures instead of symptom masking drugs, forcing people to use certain drugs by monipolizing life saving drugs like Epipens and raising their cost by 1000%+

Change that dynamic and you get a healthier, more productive society as well as an industry focused on cures and wellness.

Something important to note; you shouldn't focus on what an industry "cares" about in he context of one country, because I can guarantee that those interests are universal. There are people that would happily price hike a drug by 10,000% in the US, but there are also people like that in Australia, China, European constituents or any other country you can point out on a map.

The difference is what behaviour is enabled. The countries that have less of these problems aren't the ones with businesses that care more, they're just the ones with regulations and standards that make it harder/less efficient to do. Don't focus on demonising the private interest that decided it wanted more money, because their existence is a given. You can't force someone to care, you can only regulate their actions.

[Belize]

The first step is always to admit your mistake.

If you start on a lie you have already lost.

So all signs are good

I guess we're going to ignore all the lies he keeps repeating instead of facing the truth.
Hm.

[Deleted]

I guess we're going to ignore all the lies he keeps repeating instead of facing the truth.
Hm.

I am no expert on lies and truths.
I just know that when somebody admits that stuff is complicated or he is in over his head then they are probably telling the truth because it wouldn't make sense to lie about that

[Eats Compost]

Isn't the complexity part of the problem? The current healthcare system in the US is an administrative disaster. Just getting information about what a plan covers is difficult at best, impossible at worst. You literally can't call your health insurance provider and ask "How much will this procedure cost?" They don't even know. So you just have to sign a blank check and hope it doesn't bankrupt you if you have a serious medical situation.

So yeah, it's fucking complicated, but it doesn't have to be.

One big stom cloud hovering above the whole thing is the issue of states' rights. There really should be a single, consistent baseline for universal healthcare at the federal level (simply because that is, by far, the easiest way to administrate such a thing) but all of the states' rights interest groups would never accept it. Regardless of whether the solution has a conservative or progressive bend to it, it's hard to make an argument that each state should be doing its own thing.

On a bit of a tangent, anti-federal sentiment is such a uniquely American problem that it's hard to point to precedent solutions. Sure, other countries with states/provinces sometimes express concern about federal overreach, but it's a way more consistent theme/obstacle in US politics. As an Australian, our political scene rarely chucks a fit about the federal government making healthcare mandates, but it'd be an absolute shitshow in the US.

[Deleted]

So he's been criticizing something he admits he doesn't understand for how many years exactly? What was the basis of it all except "muuuh, Obama"?

Is this also a good sign?

Well to be fair he says "more complicated" and not "I don't understand it at all"