EU Lawmakers starting down a slippery slope

[kasuke06]

Because "slippery slope" barely ever happens, it's mostly a void arguments.

Barely, mostly: Words for "I really, really want to believe the best in people, but I know it will work out in favor of the worst in them" It's just another delusion. Assume the worst of people and be pleasantly surprised when they're not terrible, instead of assuming everyone's a superhero waiting to happen and sad when you realize there are more villains than every "x of the week" comic,cartoon,manga,serial ever conceived.

[Moratori]

But they have contributed into the system prior to unemployment.

So, your ranting is about what exactly? Do you think immigrants don't work or something?

[Kalis]

Wow! Corbyn sounds like a doofus. Your government needs a strong opposition so the sooner he leaves the better. What are the chances of Blair coming back? He looked like a decent guy.

Half the country regards Blair as a war criminal, the other half just hates him.

Regarding the NHS, why didn't you discuss reforms in parliament? It's not racist or bigoted to demand that people pay taxes before they use your entitlement programs. This was a domestic policy more than an EU one.

There was something recently about asking for proof of entitlement before use and it was called racist. "I don't like it, so it must be racist" is the argument of the day in Britain, about everything, it is tedious.

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So, your ranting is about what exactly? Do you think immigrants don't work or something?

Not all immigrants pay their way and not all non-native users of our health service are even immigrants, some just fly over to use the service, then bugger off. We're being taken for mugs.

[Triks]

So, your ranting is about what exactly? Do you think immigrants don't work or something?

I am not ranting about anything. If a person comes to a country, they should be taxed for, say 3 months, before they are entitled to social programs. I am not anti-immigration because I care about money above all else. Because I care about money above all else I can't permit the use of social programs to people who have not paid into them.

[snackfeat]

"Mass immigration"? USA has done just fine, in fact, the success of USA is because of immigration.

If you can't see the difference between the founding of the USA and europe taking in hordes of middle eastern refugees, I don't know what to tell you.

[Mayhem]

Welfare tourism in some EU countries has been a thing. You go from one EU country to another to live on benefits.

And that´s up to member countries to do something about it. Also if they are then living in that country, they do contribute, albeit just a little.

Until they find a job. I have no problem paying 1 year worth of benefits for the potential of them having 5 years of a taxable salary. Plus I don't like losing manpower.

So if one was working for a year and is then without a job for 10 years he will only get benefits for 2 1/2 months?

[Moratori]

Not all immigrants pay their way and not all non-native users of our health service are even immigrants, some just fly over to use the service, then bugger off. We're being taken for mugs.

Do they have permits to live there? If so it shouldn't matter.

As for the bolded part, why would you let people travel there and use your health care system without permits to live in the country, without paying for it?

[Triks]

Half the country regards Blair as a war criminal, the other half just hates him.



There was something recently about asking for proof of entitlement before use and it was called racist. "I don't like it, so it must be racist" is the argument of the day in Britain, about everything, it is tedious.

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Not all immigrants pay their way and not all non-native users of our health service are even immigrants, some just fly over to use the service, then bugger off. We're being taken for mugs.

But why do you hate Blair? He seemed like a good PM?

[Moratori]

If you can't see the difference between the founding of the USA and europe taking in hordes of middle eastern refugees, I don't know what to tell you.

It's bad to take middle easterers, why, exactly? Did you oppose jews fleeing or people from balkan too? Or is it specific to middle eastern people?

[Deleted]

Depends. If you are paying taxes in your current home country, your country of origin doesn't matter.

Doesn't depend. In Germany, if you are employed, you automatically pay your share into the public healthcare system (unless you earn very much, then you have the option to pick a private insurance). If you are not employed, the state pays for you.

What do you think? If you're a refugee, you don't get healthcare?

You won't do if you have a full open borders policy, Germany is not that rich. Doesn't Germany also have an insurance based system?

Combined public/private insurance system. Everybody is covered.

[Triks]

And that´s up to member countries to do something about it. Also if they are then living in that country, they do contribute, albeit just a little.



So if one was working for a year and is then without a job for 10 years he will only get benefits for 2 1/2 months?

I know it's up to individual countries.

Regarding the second part, you are twisting my words. I said "Until they find a job". If they are unemployed for a year - so be it, you will break even 1.5 years into their employment and then make a profit.

[Triks]

Doesn't depend. In Germany, if you are employed, you automatically pay your share into the public healthcare system (unless you earn very much, then you have the option to pick a private insurance). If you are not employed, the state pays for you.

What do you think? If you're a refugee, you don't get healthcare?



Combined public/private insurance system. Everybody is covered.

Refugees are a special case. They should be helped and they should be given permits to work and helped to find work ASAP.

[Moratori]

I am not ranting about anything. If a person comes to a country, they should be taxed for, say 3 months, before they are entitled to social programs. I am not anti-immigration because I care about money above all else. Because I care about money above all else I can't permit the use of social programs to people who have not paid into them.

Do you allow people to move to the country without having any income whatsoever? Surely to be eligible for the permits to immigrate they need a job or some kind of income that's enough for their living expenses, no?

[Kalis]

But why do you hate Blair? He seemed like a good PM?

He lied about the Iraq War, which wasn't so great as he got those of us on the right to support him in it. Not nice to send your soldiers off to war based on bullshit. The left hate him even more for it, as they are typically less willing to go to war. There were some other scandals, but the Iraq War is the main thing people hate him for.

Do they have permits to live there? If so it shouldn't matter.

As for the bolded part, why would you let people travel there and use your health care system without permits to live in the country, without paying for it?

Because if we say we will check entitlement, we get called racist, so any fucker can use it. When I said "I don't like it, so it must be racist" is the argument of the day in Britain, I wasn't joking.

[Moratori]

Because if we say we will check entitlement, we get called racist, so any fucker can use it. When I said "I don't like it, so it must be racist" is the argument of the day in Britain, I wasn't joking.

Why even listen to them? Just do it and ignore them.

[Kalis]

Combined public/private insurance system. Everybody is covered.

We don't have that, we have completely free at point of use, you don't pay then claim it back, or pay an excess, or anything like that. You only pay for your prescription, which is about £8 and even then loads of people are entitled to free prescriptions, e.g. children, elderly, pregnant women, cancer patients, etc.

It is a great system, but it has its limitations.

[Triks]

Do you allow people to move to the country without having any income whatsoever? Surely to be eligible for the permits to immigrate they need a job or some kind of income that's enough for their living expenses, no?

We have a free movement of people agreement in the EU. The idea is that you are able to go from country A to country B to find work and start a new life just by showing an ID card. Our mafia was organising people to go beg in Paris and Vienna. As horrible and grotesque as it sounds it has been misused.

I am not saying to the freedom of movement because that has been the best thing to have happened to the European continent. However, I hope you can see why I have a problem with the "entitlements for all" model. I don't think it's fair to the immigrant's new nation.

[Moratori]

We have a free movement of people agreement in the EU. The idea is that you are able to go from country A to country B to find work and start a new life just by showing an ID card. Our mafia was organising people to go beg in Paris and Vienna. As horrible and grotesque as it sounds it has been misused.

I am not saying to the freedom of movement because that has been the best thing to have happened to the European continent. However, I hope you can see why I have a problem with the "entitlements for all" model. I don't think it's fair to the immigrant's new nation.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/atyour...FTU_2.1.3.html

For stays of under three months: the only requirement for Union citizens is that they possess a valid identity document or passport. The host Member State may require the persons concerned to register their presence in the country within a reasonable and non-discriminatory period of time.

For stays of over three months: the right of residence is subject to certain conditions. EU citizens and their family members — if not working — must have sufficient resources and sickness insurance to ensure that they do not become a burden on the social services of the host Member State during their stay. Union citizens do not need residence permits, although Member States may require them to register with the authorities. Family members of Union citizens who are not nationals of a Member State must apply for a residence permit, valid for the duration of their stay or a five-year period.


It would seem that you can't just move to another country without any requirements.

[Kalis]

Why even listen to them? Just do it and ignore them.

The word 'racist' is like a magic spell. Its power to cripple Britain is astonishing.

We had thousands of people raped due to the authorities fear of being branded as racist for investigating.

[Triks]

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/atyour...FTU_2.1.3.html

For stays of under three months: the only requirement for Union citizens is that they possess a valid identity document or passport. The host Member State may require the persons concerned to register their presence in the country within a reasonable and non-discriminatory period of time.

For stays of over three months: the right of residence is subject to certain conditions. EU citizens and their family members — if not working — must have sufficient resources and sickness insurance to ensure that they do not become a burden on the social services of the host Member State during their stay. Union citizens do not need residence permits, although Member States may require them to register with the authorities. Family members of Union citizens who are not nationals of a Member State must apply for a residence permit, valid for the duration of their stay or a five-year period.


It would seem that you can't just move to another country without any requirements.

Hence where I got the "3-months" rule from.