EU Lawmakers starting down a slippery slope

[Deleted]

Well, if that is the power the parliament gives the president of itself? I am not too familiar with every detail of the EU parliament's house rules, but as far as I know, it's up to them to decide how they want to keep order and structure to their sessions.

I don't think it was ever questioned if they can or cannot do this. It seems to be more of a question of legitimacy in the public eye. The EP has an interest in not turning itself in a machine for the diffusion of hatred; but the public is invested in knowing what goes on in the chamber too.
But yeah, these things are covered in the EP Rules of Procedure which they themselves draft.

Also, and to be clear, according the the article that first reported on this thing, the powers they already had to delete the record for insulting the institution was invested in the body of presidents (vice-presidents included I imagine).

[Noradin]

How do you determine a racial slur, xenophobia, or whatever, regardless of how many languages it is in? In English I can say something that would be offensive to one native speaker, but not another native speaker. How you say something can be important, body language used, etc.

Why not just leave them in and put a trigger warning sticker for the easily offended? Let the people hear their politicians speak.

That is why there are hearings about this kind of thing.

[Noradin]

I don't think it was ever questioned if they can or cannot do this. It seems to be more of a question of legitimacy in the public eye. The EP has an interest in not turning itself in a machine for the diffusion of hatred; but the public is invested in knowing what goes on in the chamber too.
But yeah, these things are covered in the EP Rules of Procedure which they themselves draft.

Also, and to be clear, according the the article that first reported on this thing, the powers they already had to delete the record for insulting the institution was invested in the body of presidents (vice-presidents included I imagine).

And that is what we have a press for, because these things are still on record, just not in the officially sactioned livestream of the EP.
It the EP tried to hide something the public really should know about then there would be no way for them to keep it secret and hidden.

[Kalis]

It's not an arbitrary decision, what is or isn't racism is pretty well defined within European legislation. Calling Belgium a non-country is not Xenophobia, it's an idiotic comment by an imbecile, obviously.

The Belgium comment is actually an old joke, you need to have known that, otherwise you can't know if it is xenophobia, a stupid comment, or whatever, but you didn't know that.

So it is very much a subjective issue.

So you are arguing it is bad because it loses the subsconcious, emotional impact and only retains the logical bare facts of was said it is bad?

Because emphasis, facial expression, etc. is important in human communication, hence why I want to know how someone said something, not just a cold reading of what they said.

You know this is true, I know this is true, so are you going to continue to argue against it? Why not just let the video evidence stand?

[Mayhem]

One example that stuck in my memory is the Greek representative calling Turkish people savages and barbarians. I get it that he has cultural reasons to sport that kind of attitude, but he is in the European bloody Parliament. I would not want Turkey to think that the EU Parliament endorses such racism based on the comments on one extremely off the rail Greek MP. In this case, he was banned from the remainder of the session, so all is good, but in essence, banning him from session is worse than preventing public broadcast of that incident, is it not?

He really doesn´t give two shits about censorship, it´s the typical kalis show bitching about some issue he has with the EU for no other reason than it´s the EU.

[Kalis]

And I want a new computer but I don't want to pay for it.
It's one or the other. Pick.

It is not one or the other at all.

And if it was, then you wouldn't get a voice, as you are an extremist as well. You are no better than the far right, you are two sides of the same shit-covered coin.

[Kalis]

Tell that to Hungary, Poland and the US.
If you allow extremists to rant and spread lies, they will take over.

Bloody democracy! Down with this sort of thing!

Wrong, an extremist would be against everything right of the centre.

That is not true.

You want to censor political opposition and condone violence against people with differing political opinions, that makes you an extremist. What brand of bollocks you advocate is irrelevant, you are an extremist due to your advocacy of violent authoritarianism.

Is this some sort of revelation for you? Are you only just discovering that you are an authoritarian because I am telling you? Surely you must have had an inkling?

[Triks]

Oh, I was fist bumping the air when I saw that. It was glorious. The Greek MP couldn't fathom that he was literally being thrown out. It's like the schoolboy who just can't understand that the teacher has had enough of him. :P

Now multiply that reaction and you get my point. Let people see everything.

[Deleted]

Yet another example how when it comes to laws that are actually passed, it's left-side moving towards authoritarian state. All fearmongering about right/alt-right/neo-fascists/whatever-you-call-it so far was just that, they didn't have any power to actually pass any dangerous laws. Left did.

[Theodarzna]

Yet another example how when it comes to laws that are actually passed, it's left-side moving towards authoritarian state. All fearmongering about right/alt-right/neo-fascists/whatever-you-call-it so far was just that, they didn't have any power to actually pass any dangerous laws. Left did.

Yeah, it will be an easy matter for things to just be labeled whatever and censored.

[Kalis]

Democracies need to protect their minorities.

By silencing minority opinions you don't like?

You shouldn't equate 'Nazi & co' to 'differing political opinions'.

Why not? That is exactly what they are.

Your personal attacks are getting annoying, stop it and grow up.

They aren't personal attacks, they are descriptions of your political stance based on your posts.

Do you actually think that advocating violence and censorship against political opponents, are moderate positions?

[Deleted]

The Belgium comment is actually an old joke, you need to have known that, otherwise you can't know if it is xenophobia, a stupid comment, or whatever, but you didn't know that.

If memory serves me right, the context was disparaging Rompuy through explaining that Belgium is not a nation(state), whereas most other countries do structure themselves around one or more nations. Coming at the expense of Rompuy declaration that nation states are over, and they're not his audience (paraphrasing), it doesn't sound like a joke, at all :/.

[snackfeat]

You appear to be labouring under the delusion that the Daily Mail is a worthwhile news source.

It is a right-wing tabloid with a long history of publishing falsehoods.

And you appear to be under the delusion that it matters what news website it is. I just linked the first result from google, I could link several other news sites reporting the same thing, and they literally included the statement by the band itself.

[urasim]

Yet another example how when it comes to laws that are actually passed, it's left-side moving towards authoritarian state. All fearmongering about right/alt-right/neo-fascists/whatever-you-call-it so far was just that, they didn't have any power to actually pass any dangerous laws. Left did.

They're using the fear mongering to trick people into supporting this sort of bullshit. We see it all the time. Look at all the assholes on here saying punching a Nazi is good because they're evil and have done very evil things. They'll say "it's just words now, but they want to kill everyone!". Fucking pathetic fear mongering assholes justifying violence and censorship against OPINIONS!

Wish they'd stop and realize that they're going to be the next group targeted with these sort of laws.

[Kalis]

If memory serves me right, the context was disparaging Rompuy through explaining that Belgium is not a nation(state), whereas most other countries do structure themselves around one or more nations. Coming at the expense of Rompuy declaration that nation states are over, and they're not his audience (paraphrasing), it doesn't sound like a joke, at all :/.

The joke goes back to Monty Python at least, probably before then. Farage's schtick is not original.

This is one of the problems when you have people from different cultures deciding on what is acceptable, as one man's piss take is another's man's xenophobia. That two posters on here with a decent grasp of English don't realise it is an old joke, is somewhat damning.

[kasuke06]

Where does it say that?

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At this point I'm not really amazed at the alt-right dummies not being able to comprehend simple things, my forehead still hurts a bit from reading this thread though.

It actually is remarkably simple. One person has sole ownership of the press within a certain space. Now since you're obviously new to this whole "politics" thing, having sole control over who gets to be heard and who doesn't, shits all over the entire concept of democracy. The extreme few get to control the voices of the many. Again, just imagine giving trump(or your political enemies du jour) this power to gag order anyone on the basis of finding it offensive.

"oh they'll be totally impartial!" If you believe that, then I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. The president is a human being. Humans turn 99.9% of everything they touch to pure shit when it comes to politics.

[Theodarzna]

How people are trying to equate the EU political establishment with left-wing politics is absolutely beyond me. This has nothing to do with 'the left'.

And is it not fearmongering in itself when they simply want to have some simple common decency guidelines in place, pretending it's some kind of slippery slope towards 1984 ?

Probably because the political Left of most stripes likes to water carry for the EU.

[Kalis]

Probably because the political Left of most stripes likes to water carry for the EU.

The British far left hate the EU, as they see it as a neo-liberal corporatist nightmare that shits on the working classes. To be fair, they have a point.

[Theodarzna]

I don't think so. If you go to left-wing forums the EU will be remarked upon as being a neo-liberal right-wing organization for the benefit of corporations.

The truth is simply that it's an establishment for career politicians, and those typically don't give a shit about left or right but only about how to fill their own pockets and increase their own family's influence. Trying to blame it on the left is just absurd dishonesty.

If you listen to any of the most esteemed left wing philosophers of our age, they'll all heavily criticize the structure and workings of the EU.

I need to go to those forums then, because I've never seen that criticism leveled in any forum elsewhere. Slavoy might be the only visible critic of the EU I've ever seen on the Left.

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The British far left hate the EU, as they see it as a neo-liberal corporatist nightmare that shits on the working classes. To be fair, they have a point.

I suppose their voice gets drowned out by the Laurie Penny set.

[Kalis]

I suppose their voice gets drowned out by the Laurie Penny set.

Pretty much.

Jeremy Corbyn has been anti-EU for his entire political career, until he became leader of the Labour Party, then begrudgingly supported Remain as the party is mainly centrist. I would put money on him having voted Leave.

As far as Britain goes, it is damaging to the working classes, as it brings in cheap labour at their expense. I am not working class, so it doesn't affect me, but you get the likes of Zelk on here who is very old school left wing and they hate the EU.