Outlaw really that bad?

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Outlaw/Combat has always been better for aoe than st. Which makes them better in 5-mans than raids. Fortunately we live in the age of M+ where 5-mans are more relevant. In raids, we will do better in fights with lots of adds than those without. I've only just leveled my rogue alt, not played since WoD, so haven't raided Legion on him yet, but I'm guessing our better fights would include Skorpyron, Tich, and Botanist? And we probably fall off for Krosus, Star Auger, Elisande... Spellblade we could be good for frost phase where the adds clump but not so good for fire (except maybe with acrobatic strikes?). Just my guesses based on previous xpacs.

I dinged 110 today and started gearing. Guess I'll find out soon enough!

[justrouge]

I'm probably one of the better players in the world playing Outlaw without good legendaries (currently using KJs and ring). Let me say from experience: it's awful, honestly. You have no control over your DPS. You can suggest at how much damage you would like to do, but unless you have the legendaries to play it, this spec is a joke. I swing 250k+ single target on 4 minute pulls. No one should be playing outlaw when assassination is so good.

i would say this.

[BellicoseAxe]

As Dirty Harry would say; do you feel lucky, punk?

[TheRogue]

Outlaw is barely worth playing even in Mythic+, maybe on the lower levels where things barely survive so a few good hits with BF up and you hit high dps on a pack. Long lived aoe on 12+ where you can multi dot, using deadly poison and spamming FoK/Envenoms, Assassination aoe can really hold its own, it can even be bursty if you get some nice poison bombs

[cface]

I use outlaw as a farm spec, and tbh, there are a lot to farm in wow. I would suggest Ass or Sub as main spec, but it's easier to gear and start rocking with assassin.

When farming, it really doesn't matter that much that you got slapped by rng, cause it's farm, and Outlaw helps with my stamina to not quit wow, cause it looks good, it's a bit of casino, and it feels good to play. If you're pugging, maybe not start outlaw at the first boss, I did that, and I got kicked midfight cause of very bad rng, both rolls and boss mechanics..

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

The most frustrating part for me so far is re-rolling RTB over and over while the clock is ticking on hero and I'm not using finishers to actually damage the boss, just fish for better buffs.

[Misstigris]

I'm just an average player who do HM. And i was so deceived by RTB and his randomness that i switch for SnD (and had no shoulder/bracer since yesterday). For my current ilvl (~892) i parses arround 40-75% witch is fine for me. But compare to other classe i'm in the middle - bottom of the dpsmeter.
Now that i have the shoulder i will try to go back to roll for true baering.

Every day i'm thinking to switch to sin. I juste stay with outlaw cose i'm lazy.

[zoned]

I've tried every possible outlaw build in raids and and can confirm it is the worst raiding DPS spec in the game. I'm 54 traits in outlaw with the 2nd BIS legendary setup... yet I can do 100-150k more dps as assassination with only 35 traits... Not to mention outlaw cleave is mediocre at best. A Frost DK, DH or Fury Warrior all have far superior cleave and insanely better single target dps, it's not even comparable.

I'm not sure where outlaw fits into this game. M+ meme spec maybe...but why invest time into it when you could just roll frost dk, dh or warrior.

Outlaw needs a complete overhaul here is just a few suggestions;
Blade flurry needs a huge buff/change.
Curse of the dread blades/adrenaline rush CD's should be reduced by 50%(thats how bad this spec is).
Fix RNG by making truebearing baseline and reduce it's effectiveness by 50% and or make RTB a 4 sided dice with slightly weaker buffs allowing you to roll 1,2,4 buffs at a time.

[Maquegyver]

If you aren't doing mythic raids there is no reason at all to not play outlaw if that is your desired spec. Play what you enjoy.

[Khobahi]

When playing my rogue i have always been combat/Outlaw (admittingly i quit for most of cata/mop/wod) But its just so grating right now. With what seems consistent nerfs and lack of BiS legendaries to try and help i'm just falling further and further behind in my raids. This week on our Heroic NH Clear is decided to try out SnD just for kicks and for some reason was actually able to compete better and was way more consistent. I don't wanna go sin... i hate the style but i might have to for mythic progression.. which is dumb..

[Hodag]

When playing my rogue i have always been combat/Outlaw (admittingly i quit for most of cata/mop/wod) But its just so grating right now. With what seems consistent nerfs and lack of BiS legendaries to try and help i'm just falling further and further behind in my raids. This week on our Heroic NH Clear is decided to try out SnD just for kicks and for some reason was actually able to compete better and was way more consistent. I don't wanna go sin... i hate the style but i might have to for mythic progression.. which is dumb..

With SnD, you can consistently perform in the 75-85% range in your ilvl bracket. That's what I was doing, too, and always saw consistent numbers. Problem is, even at 75-85%, it's still utter shit compared to everyone else in your raid group.

Outlaw is just in a bad spot right now. I'm switching to Sin. My gear is sub-par for it, and my parses won't be so high, but I'll do more damage...and that's all that matters.

[Deleted]

I have played Outlaw only since the beginning of legion and enjoyed it even with the rng because the numbers were still decent. But now it's just starting to like you need to roll really really well to compete with other specs. Unless you roll 6 buffs or some decent 2s and 3s in a row you will not be doing decent dps. If you roll shit buffs you will just do shit dps. It's starting to feel more and more annoying because you only want really good buffs to keep up with others and the frustration is huge when you keep rolling bad single buffs. Feels like in order to keep this stupid rng system the dps should be balanced with others when you roll average buffs. If you roll badly you lose to others and if you get lucky you should slightly beat everyone. And 6 buffs should demolish others in dps momentarily, not be the only way to keep up.

[permp]

I have played Outlaw only since the beginning of legion and enjoyed it even with the rng because the numbers were still decent. But now it's just starting to like you need to roll really really well to compete with other specs. Unless you roll 6 buffs or some decent 2s and 3s in a row you will not be doing decent dps. If you roll shit buffs you will just do shit dps. It's starting to feel more and more annoying because you only want really good buffs to keep up with others and the frustration is huge when you keep rolling bad single buffs. Feels like in order to keep this stupid rng system the dps should be balanced with others when you roll average buffs. If you roll badly you lose to others and if you get lucky you should slightly beat everyone. And 6 buffs should demolish others in dps momentarily, not be the only way to keep up.

Everyone keep saying to play what you want and don't look to skada and that is impossible, outlaw on the beginning of EN with a one or two 6 buffs proc you could make good parse and sustain a damage on the raid but now even with incredible luck does really bad comparing with other melles and comparing with sub and assa.

They need to rework TB and blade flurry asap or just wait until next expansion.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Does this mean Outlaw is the worse spec for leveling as well? And for WQ's?

[Mafic]

Does this mean Outlaw is the worse spec for leveling as well? And for WQ's?

Outlaw is fine for world quests and leveling. I think it is better for leveling because of Blade Flurry.

Once you have enough gear though, Sub/Assassination steamroll through WG's but so does Outlaw so it doesn't really matter so you play what is fun for WQs.

[Stened91]

How about sub vs sin? Is Sub still overly complicated and more or less same as sin?

[thottstation]

You could play fantastically, and still do terrible dps.

You could play terribly, and do fantastic dps.

It's rng. And it infuriated me.

When I play a video game, I need to know my actions and practiced skill influence my performance. As an Outlaw rogue, it doesn't.

Speaking as someone whop has played only a combat rogue for 10 years, this makes me very sad. I play Assassination now. Feels bad.

[Deleted]

People still hanging onto the idea that Outlaw could be a thing in march 2017... you got baited and switched into a spec almost half a year back and it has never dawned on you to get out till now?

[Deleted]

Outlaw/Combat has always been better for aoe than st. Which makes them better in 5-mans than raids. Fortunately we live in the age of M+ where 5-mans are more relevant. In raids, we will do better in fights with lots of adds than those without. I've only just leveled my rogue alt, not played since WoD, so haven't raided Legion on him yet, but I'm guessing our better fights would include Skorpyron, Tich, and Botanist? And we probably fall off for Krosus, Star Auger, Elisande... Spellblade we could be good for frost phase where the adds clump but not so good for fire (except maybe with acrobatic strikes?). Just my guesses based on previous xpacs.

I dinged 110 today and started gearing. Guess I'll find out soon enough!

I hate to break it to you but Outlaw is probably the worst Rogue spec even for M+. People try to mention AoE as its redeeming quality but it's laughable compared to proper AoE specs and that's assuming you blow your cooldowns on trash (which you have to) and then don't have them up for bosses unless you get really lucky with chain-rolling True Bearing (not that your boss DPS will be anything more than healer-tier unless you have the bracers and it's Tyrannical week). And speaking of True Bearing, it doesn't even reset Cloak/Riposte anymore so literally your entire reason for being there is free Gouge. That's it. Even if you don't have the cloak Assassination and Sub are both better, and if you do have the cloak then you might as well look at your class as only having two specs.

[Aureli]

Its more about the melee position in the raid, then outlaw being bad. Other 2 specs just fiting much better into meta.

By meta i mean, melee go kill boss and ranged do the tactics.