Player since Vanilla but never dabbled into PVP until now.

[Crruor]

Like what?

Mage - nope. tons of counters. DHs can do /spit on a mage and it loses 80% HP.
Hunter - nope. no utility. easy sit on with a melee, no defenses against other ranged.
Elemental shaman - nope. melee fodder.
Boomkin - lol. nope.
Shadow priest - soooooooooo nope.
Warlock (afflicition) - decent. still can't handle most melee. gets utterly rekt by rogues and dhs. other specs are shit.

Firstly, im talking about instanced pvp not world pvp.

And a mage shits on a DH (literally nothing a DH can do vs a good mage), locks are super strong at dueling as well. Good demo locks dont even drop health vs a DH.

[Ohmega]

Firstly, im talking about instanced pvp not world pvp.

And a mage shits on a DH (literally nothing a DH can do vs a good mage), locks are super strong at dueling as well. Good demo locks dont even drop health vs a DH.

I get the feeling that a lot of people that complain about PvP are complaining about WPvP and just generalizing. Just silly.

Battlegrounds and arenas are in a great state right now.

[Phookah]

The only people that think PVP is in good shape this expansion are PVE players. That is Holinka's target demographic anyways.

Yeah, mostly because PvPer's can't farm up full sets of conquest in 4 weeks and then proceed to queue for random BG's and 2 shot no-gear players all day.

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I get the feeling that a lot of people that complain about PvP are complaining about WPvP and just generalizing. Just silly.

Battlegrounds and arenas are in a great state right now.

Arenas are objectively NOT in a great state. The ladder has virtually disappeared, it has the lowest participation its ever had right now, and I can feel for those people.
BG's are fine.

[Deleted]

Yeah, mostly because PvPer's can't farm up full sets of conquest in 4 weeks and then proceed to queue for random BG's and 2 shot no-gear players all day.

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Arenas are objectively NOT in a great state. The ladder has virtually disappeared, it has the lowest participation its ever had right now, and I can feel for those people.
BG's are fine.

If Blizzard didn't piss on pvp-ers, participation would be higher. But then we have Holinka as lead pvp designer, the guy behind Trashran, so you really can't expect much from someone who is nigh clueless about pvp.

[Crruor]

If Blizzard didn't piss on pvp-ers, participation would be higher. But then we have Holinka as lead pvp designer, the guy behind Trashran, so you really can't expect much from someone who is nigh clueless about pvp.

Honest question, bar forcing people into it what was worse about ashran compared to wintergrasp or tol barad?

[Deleted]

Honest question, bar forcing people into it what was worse about ashran compared to wintergrasp or tol barad?

First of all, the snowballing effect. In Trashran, because of the event spawns, both factions had to contest the same event location instead of being spread on the map like in WG and TB in order to hold other strategic locations. Most of the mass fights in Trashran were completely one sided as one faction steamrolled the other at all events and denied them any honor/conquest for hours, something which did not happen in WG nor TB.

Second of all, the fights being massively biased towards ranged specs, as melees on the front lines had the same survivability as that of the fruit fly. This happens because, once again, both factions are being forced into one mass fight instead of having to disperse across several strategic locations that must be held, like in WG and TB.

In Holinka's noob mind, wpvp is about as many people as possible being thrown in a hole to duke it out. That's not how it works, wpvp is about as few people as possible in one spot, and Trashran should have had multiple strategic locations across the map, not just the middle road, that would influence the outcome significantly.

In both WG and TB I had tons of fun even when losing. In Trashran, if you're losing, you're having 0 fun.

[Ohmega]

Arenas are objectively NOT in a great state. The ladder has virtually disappeared, it has the lowest participation its ever had right now, and I can feel for those people.
BG's are fine.

Arenas are in a good state from a competition/balance state, is what I meant. I don't care that a lot of people aren't around because of the lack of PvP rewards and the like.

[Deleted]

It's the best expansion to just... well, do pvp. No mandatory gear grind and getting destroyed by people in superiour gear without a chance to retaliate, like level 50 against level 60

yeah now we get destroyed by higher arti lvls and the guy with more honor talents.

[Socialhealer]

yeah now we get destroyed by higher arti lvls and the guy with more honor talents.

lol if you don't have 50 talents by now you're not even remotely interested in pvp.

it's like LFR players commenting about mythic raid difficulty, no-one cares you're not part of the equation.

[Ohmega]

yeah now we get destroyed by higher arti lvls and the guy with more honor talents.

It seriously takes like a week of casual play to unlock those talents and if you do your artifact research, you can get all of your "gold" abilities in a single round of world-quest/daily quest roundups.

This type of complaining is insane.

[Deleted]

It seriously takes like a week of casual play to unlock those talents and if you do your artifact research, you can get all of your "gold" abilities in a single round of world-quest/daily quest roundups.

This type of complaining is insane.

i was talking about a freshly dinged player.... and he told us about a mandatory grind.

[gutnbrg]

Very likely plays an OP melee spec.

there has never been an xpac where a player could "smash" people in 1 ability. Dont add ur 2 cents to a thread if its going to be lies...Legion is by far the worst pvp xpac to date. Its not my opinion, just look at the stats and see how many less players are involved in pvp compared to wod

[Ravingmad]

PvErs going PvP is mostly for AP farming via WQ or the Dalaran's Weekly Quest. As said, you can also unlock skins/mounts/etc from PvP which will attract collectors. Theres just more incitative to go PvP, but IMO PvP remains PvP. Some classes/combo are still unbalanced/OP. But I find it more fun overall (maybe because I care less), but the ability pruning destroyed the "Art of PvP", IMO. But I like PvP tanking now! You deal good damage and tank well with some nice toolkit via PvP talents.

[Deleted]

lol if you don't have 50 talents by now you're not even remotely interested in pvp.

it's like LFR players commenting about mythic raid difficulty, no-one cares you're not part of the equation.

when you hit lvl 110, you will feel a big fucking difference in power between players because of the ap and honor talents. yes we can get the traits to 34 much quicker now but its still a mandatory grind that you have to do.
The idea of a pvp template is awesome, but they are using it in such a bad way. some classes that rely on a sec stat (lets take sub rogues) are getting way to low of a % in it when entering arenas, also they are nerfing classes left and right with flat stat nerf instead of hitting the specific ability that made the broken (assa rogues with MS 35%, tho its finally fixed)(another note that they are finally doing this now and i hope this will make arenas more fun). And some honor talents are so fucking bad, why would i ever fucking take spinning fire blossom instead of a +5 yard range and stun????? and its not really fun to see spells that i had in other expansion to be honor talents. Legion has the potentiall to be the best pvp expansion but for some reason they are not doing it.

[FelPlague]

Like what?

Mage - nope. tons of counters. DHs can do /spit on a mage and it loses 80% HP.
Hunter - nope. no utility. easy sit on with a melee, no defenses against other ranged.
Elemental shaman - nope. melee fodder.
Boomkin - lol. nope.
Shadow priest - soooooooooo nope.
Warlock (afflicition) - decent. still can't handle most melee. gets utterly rekt by rogues and dhs. other specs are shit.

LOL idk about you but as affliction lock i "REKT" demon hunters
the specs that "REKT" affliction locks can be rogue, dk, and pally (because they can make themselves invincable to you, all well they can still attack you) because they remove all your dots, and make you unable to drain soul on them well they are cloak/bubble/antimagic

demon hunter i just unending resolve, curse of weakness, then drop all my dots on them and drain soul until their metamorph is over, then i do the UA stack+Drain soul+ mortal coil once i apply to dots to get some health back, and get some time to start getting stacks of drain soul damage reduction

[Nynax]

Yeah, mostly because PvPer's can't farm up full sets of conquest in 4 weeks and then proceed to queue for random BG's and 2 shot no-gear players all day.

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Arenas are objectively NOT in a great state. The ladder has virtually disappeared, it has the lowest participation its ever had right now, and I can feel for those people.
BG's are fine.

What's the possibility of that not being about PvP being good or bad, but because the rest of the PvE game is arguably the best its ever been and theres a lot to do?

[Socialhealer]

when you hit lvl 110, you will feel a big fucking difference in power between players because of the ap and honor talents. yes we can get the traits to 34 much quicker now but its still a mandatory grind that you have to do.
The idea of a pvp template is awesome, but they are using it in such a bad way. some classes that rely on a sec stat (lets take sub rogues) are getting way to low of a % in it when entering arenas, also they are nerfing classes left and right with flat stat nerf instead of hitting the specific ability that made the broken (assa rogues with MS 35%, tho its finally fixed)(another note that they are finally doing this now and i hope this will make arenas more fun). And some honor talents are so fucking bad, why would i ever fucking take spinning fire blossom instead of a +5 yard range and stun????? and its not really fun to see spells that i had in other expansion to be honor talents. Legion has the potentiall to be the best pvp expansion but for some reason they are not doing it.

same for PvE if you slack for a few months you're really far behind pugs don't want you, guilds don't want you, you have to put in tons of work trying to play catch up, basically thats just an mmorpg, and it's nowhere near as bad as it was 10 years or 20 years ago.

[Reveries1]

Personally feel instanced pvp balance is great right now. I do miss looking forward to this week I get my shoulders, stuff like that. I think fixing up the rewards system would make it better.

[Deleted]

same for PvE if you slack for a few months you're really far behind pugs don't want you, guilds don't want you, you have to put in tons of work trying to play catch up, basically thats just an mmorpg, and it's nowhere near as bad as it was 10 years or 20 years ago.

why should pvp gearing be like pve? When people have complained that they want the same playing field since the introduction of arenas. Balance wise pvp might be ok, but gameplay wise its boring, all the niche spells are getting removed (mind sear)/gotten removed and the rewards are lack luster. The amount of AP you get from pvp is a joke compared to PvE and getting gear through rng is stupid (think they are fixing this in 7.2 not sure tho). Personally i just stopped with pvp this expansion because of the gameplay and because of the there really isnt any decent rewards for doing it. Pve is great imo tho.

[Holofernes]

so basically u mean legion pvp is good for absolute beginners that have no clue about everything, just run in and hit some random buttons till you die. What pvpers mean with pvp is a bit more sophisticated than "doing some random bgs". And this pvp is dead. Never there was so little rbg / arena participation since it was introduced. Bgs are a nightmare for everyone that likes objective oriented playing and not only zerging. I have never had a time where the class i main since classic (ms warrior) feels so gutted like it does in legion pvp. For people with clue and some experience about pvp, , beeing it world / bgs / arenas / rbgs, for all legion is the worst pvp iteration that was ever made.