Sweden on the Brink? – An Interview with Dr. Tino Sanandaji

[Deleted]

about that I am not qualified enough to make an assesment based on what is going to happen to sweden in the future and that is why I am keeping an open mind about what possibly is going to happen since I cannot say with certainty.

If I could do that I would be a billionaire because lots of money could be made with that kind of information, especially in the forex stock market.

sweden is going to expell all non-europeans in the end

[Deleted]

sweden is going to expell all non-europeans in the end

I am sorry I don't understand what you mean by that. Expell all non-europeans? How would they do that. This is a herculean task that cannot be achieved without an extremely radical government which is unlikely to happen

[NED funded]

Its quite obvious that open borders concept do not work with a welfare state in place. Immigrants are too economkc driven when compared to their native counterparts.

Also I still stand behind my statement that we worry unnecesarily over Sweden. I do not recall this much media attention over polish people immigrating to England.

[sarahtasher]

"Is projected to" is exactly what I was saying from the get go. So using that as an argument seems, odd. The rest is basically "things might change", sure they might. In both directions. Which is exactly why I wrote in another post that it is a projected developement that will likely occur without sweepind or radical changes. I at no point excluded those. In fact we had some rather radical changes in recent months.

"In the 2030s", Czech Republic is not yet a first world country. The same as many East European countries it has not recovered from being under the rule of the Soviet Union yet. Meanwhile Sweden was a country with an insanely high living standard and wealth, which is plunging straight through the floor and seems unlikey to stop once it hits the level the Czech Republic is at.

You guys are reduced to nitpicking phrasing and arguing that it "wont be Somalia" but rather "just Czech Republic" at which point we pretend it still suddenly stagnate.

Actually, in the real world, Sweden have in 2016 the HDI index projected in that index for 2030, while remaining very high. The calculation in 2010 of the HDI index for Sweden is 0.885...

[KrazyK923]

Is this the current strategy of Trumpettes to distract from the dumpster fire of a candidate melting down, posting articles upon articles of anti-immigration people shitting on Sweden?

The doctor interviewed is an economist...

lol.

[Mormolyce]

This guy is an economist.

TS: If what you described was true that would counter my argument but let me give you the actual numbers. These are the perceptions that most people have but they are not accurate.

First, Sweden does not have a shrinking population even excluding the immigrants. Sweden is not Italy, it has much higher birth rates. Over the last 200 years we had a birth surplus in all but four years even excluding immigration. The number of native origin Swedes has never been higher than now. Of course a lot of the population growth is immigrants but Sweden would still be ok without it.

I'm just going to address this one: Sweden's total fertility rate is below replacement levels like most European countries. The fact it's close to replacement rate is actually almost certainly because Sweden has a higher immigrant population than places like Italy, France and Germany. That's how it works in pretty much every Western country.

So what he's saying here is misleading if not outright false.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...fertility_rate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ant_population

[sarahtasher]

sweden is going to expell all non-europeans in the end

A certain country that is totally not the OP tried this gig, like countless ones in the thirties. The very annoying part about ethnic cleansing is that usually, it's your ethnic group that ends up being expelled at gunpoint after losing the holy cleansing war...

Kauze I really hate to tell you that, but Dantzig became Gdansk and Koenisburg Kaliningrad...

[Mormolyce]

Is this the current strategy of Trumpettes to distract from the dumpster fire of a candidate melting down, posting articles upon articles of anti-immigration people shitting on Sweden?

They've put a lot of effort into fake news about Sweden for the last five years or so, they're not going to let a little thing like facts tear all that hard work apart.

And of course, Sweden's own fringe right and racists have jumped on board.

[KrazyK923]

They've put a lot of effort into fake news about Sweden for the last five years or so, they're not going to let a little thing like facts tear all that hard work apart.

And of course, Sweden's own fringe right and racists have jumped on board.

I have no actual opinion on Sweden either way but its really telling that its a single political identity trying to smear them. Especially when you can take 10 seconds of googling to see most of the articles are filled to the brim with outright lies or severe distortions of the truth, using incredibly disingenuous tactics like quoting an interview with a "doctor" whose doctorate has nothing to do with the actual topic being discussed.

Its the same strategy as the frauds who go "BUT BEN CARSON IS A DOCTOR! HE SURELY CAN DO THIS POSITION HE HAS NO QUALIFICATIONS OR EXPERIENCE IN! CUZ DOCTOR!"

[Deleted]

Source: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/swede...matias-tavares

Jeez, this guy again. Tino is a guy that has spent his entire career making up stuff to try and prove immigrants are bad. To the point of taking others work and adding pure speculation without actually doing the research himself to come up with numbers. He's highly biased and married to a far right-wing politician.

Sweden's per capita GDP is not growing because immigrant's don't want to work and only receive welfare benefits[/SIZE][/FONT][/I][/B]

Sweden's GDP IS growing though and has been for some time. Unemployment is going down, etc etc.

- - - Updated - - -

I have no actual opinion on Sweden either way but its really telling that its a single political identity trying to smear them. Especially when you can take 10 seconds of googling to see most of the articles are filled to the brim with outright lies or severe distortions of the truth, using incredibly disingenuous tactics like quoting an interview with a "doctor" whose doctorate has nothing to do with the actual topic being discussed.

Its the same strategy as the frauds who go "BUT BEN CARSON IS A DOCTOR! HE SURELY CAN DO THIS POSITION HE HAS NO QUALIFICATIONS OR EXPERIENCE IN! CUZ DOCTOR!"

This pretty much!

[sarahtasher]

That's a very simple question, isn't it ?

Your sites peddle that Sweden will be a third world country because of this report. http://ww.rrojasdatabank.info/HDRP_2010_40.pdf

WHERE in this report ?

[Deleted]

They've put a lot of effort into fake news about Sweden for the last five years or so, they're not going to let a little thing like facts tear all that hard work apart.

And of course, Sweden's own fringe right and racists have jumped on board.

You mean like our minister?

http://www.thelocal.se/20170304/fake...ens-sex-crimes

She wouldn't have faced so much hate for lying 5 years ago (so she had to back off )since åsiktskorridoren didn't allow for it

[Kiri]

"Is projected to" is exactly what I was saying from the get go. So using that as an argument seems, odd. The rest is basically "things might change", sure they might. In both directions. Which is exactly why I wrote in another post that it is a projected developement that will likely occur without sweepind or radical changes. I at no point excluded those. In fact we had some rather radical changes in recent months.

"In the 2030s", Czech Republic is not yet a first world country. The same as many East European countries it has not recovered from being under the rule of the Soviet Union yet. Meanwhile Sweden was a country with an insanely high living standard and wealth, which is plunging straight through the floor and seems unlikey to stop once it hits the level the Czech Republic is at.

You guys are reduced to nitpicking phrasing and arguing that it "wont be Somalia" but rather "just Czech Republic" at which point we pretend it still suddenly stagnate.

Given according to the UN Sweden will hit third world status in the 2030s, why shouldn't they? I know this might sound like magic to you but we can to an extend predict certain trends and developements. Similar to how we are able to predict weather developement in advance within a margin of error that lets us make somewhat decent predictions. The weather people are not actually getting these predictions from mystics or making them up.

The same applies to things such as the economy, average income, crime statistics, demographic developements etc. A lot of these are in fact far more predictable and we can even say how they will likely play out longterm without drastic and fundamental changes.

You said predicted, which is precisely what the paper refutes to be....

Furthermore, I only contested your assertion that Sweden would become a third world country or one of the least developed countries, which is plainly wrong. An HDI of 0.9 is worlds apart from LCD values. In fact, developed countries tend to begin at one of about 0.85, though given that the term is quite loosely defined, one could dispute the fact. Yet, no definition I know of would put an 0.9 at third world country level.

Now Sweden's drop in that model is concerning, yes, but your statement remains hyperbole.

[Deleted]

Sweden appendix of the 2015 report (claims of thirld world comes from 2010 report).
http://hdr.undp.org/sites/all/themes...-notes/SWE.pdf

It is misleading to compare values and rankings with those of previously published reports, because of revisions and updates of the underlying data and adjustments to goalposts. Readers are advised to assess progress in HDI values by referring to table 2 (‘Human Development Index Trends’) in the Statistical Annex of the report. Table 2 is based on consistent indicators, methodology and time-series data and thus shows real changes in values and ranks over time, reflecting the actu
al progress countries have made. Small changes in values should be interpreted with caution as they may not be statistically significant due to
sampling variation. Generally speaking, changes at the level ofthe third decimal place in any of the composite indices are considered insignificant.

Corrected evaluation of sweden's HDI for 2010 : 0.903 (2010 report claimed 0.949)

So basically, alt righters cherry picked the 2010 version because it was inacurrate.

Also, 0.920 is not fucking thirld world

[Theodarzna]

It will be, but as history attests to it, when you have a negative force trying to sweep across nation after nation, it causes other nations to stand up and take notice. Lets be honest, for every actual migrant wanting freedom from their backwards country their fleeing from, their are just as many of them wanting to use this moment to invade under the guise of a helpless migrant, when all they really want to do is bring sharia and force their countries ideology on the one they invade.

Merkel thought all migrants were white blood cells, she didn't recognize the cancer cells flooding in with it.

Invasion is a bit strong, I'd say a not insignificant amount of them simply want the greater economic opportunity and generous benefits of Swedish society, but have zero loyalty to Sweden or intent on becoming Swedes.

I cannot imagine that not having a change on Swedens legal, political and secular culture.

[Deleted]

Invasion is a bit strong, I'd say a not insignificant amount of them simply want the greater economic opportunity and generous benefits of Swedish society, but have zero loyalty to Sweden or intent on becoming Swedes.

I cannot imagine that not having a change on Swedens legal, political and secular culture.

Immigrants can't be swedes unless they were swedes immigrating.

[Theodarzna]

Immigrants can't become swedes.

Assuming their intermarried with locals, adopted the Swedish language and culture and religious and political values, yes I'd say they could become Swedes. But mostly it does not seem like that is happening.

[Deleted]

The Nordic Resistance Movement is looking more attractive everyday...

[Deleted]

Assuming their intermarried with locals, adopted the Swedish language and culture and religious and political values, yes I'd say they could become Swedes. But mostly it does not seem like that is happening.

No. Swedes are an ethnic group. You don't become unlesd you're born swedish.

[JohnBrown1917]

The Nordic Resistance Movement is looking more attractive everyday...

>In 2017, NRM members were arrested for involvement in two bombings and a bombing attempt in Gothenborg, near two refugee accommodations and a syndicalist organization


What a fun group.