UK will have to give up all EU perks after Brexit, François Hollande warns

[Rockyreg]

Not solely, according to some brexiters, like dribbles for example, everything is on the table for negotiations.

It has the potential to turn into this, which should be the position that both sides should try to avoid as then things will get nasty and bitter in the event of this.

No matter what is being said at the moment the UK just wants a fair, free trade agreement with the EU reflective of our previous contributions and the fact that we operate inline with EU regulations and standards. We fully appreciate we will not receive the level of access that we currently enjoy but feel that a happy medium can be met which ultimately benefits both sides.

In return I fully expect the UK will continue to support the EU, I expect we would still contribute to the EU budget much like countries like Norway does and of course we will pay for all reasonable liabilities upon leaving.

[Deleted]

It has the potential to turn into this, which should be the position that both sides should try to avoid as then things will get nasty and bitter in the event of this.

No matter what is being said at the moment the UK just wants a fair, free trade agreement with the EU reflective of our previous contributions and the fact that we operate inline with EU regulations and standards. We fully appreciate we will not receive the level of access that we currently enjoy but feel that a happy medium can be met which ultimately benefits both sides.

In return I fully expect the UK will continue to support the EU, I expect we would still contribute to the EU budget much like countries like Norway does and of course we will pay for all reasonable liabilities upon leaving.

There is no "we". You speak for 51%. The rest of us want xenophobic filth like you to f*** off and die.

[Rockyreg]

There is no "we". You speak for 51%. The rest of us want xenophobic filth like you to f*** off and die.

Unless you fucking leave the country you will be part of the 'we' like it or not. If you can point out any of my posts where I exhibit this xenophobia please do, otherwise kindly go fuck yourself.

[Tijuana]

The EU has like 5 years left, at best. What does it really matter?

[Mayhem]

The EU has like 5 years left, at best. What does it really matter?

Thanks for your well supported fact based input, always a pleasure to read such elaborate and meaningful comments.

[Tijuana]

Thanks for your well supported fact based input, always a pleasure to read such elaborate and meaningful comments.

If LePen wins, France is out. If France is out, everyone is out. Even if she doesn't win, it seems the public in many other nations are against the EU as well. Perhaps I will be wrong but, it's hardly a wild notion that isn't shared by millions of others.

[Mayhem]

If LePen wins, France is out. If France is out, everyone is out. Even if she doesn't win, it seems the public in many other nations are against the EU as well. Perhaps I will be wrong but, it's hardly a wild notion that isn't shared by millions of others.

Lots of ifs and maybes to make such a claim. Even if le pen wins and that is a pretty big if, talking about leaving to gather votes and actually leaving are two entirely different things.

[Teleros]

Unfortunately the world does not work that way. Anything lost from the financial services sector will not magically be gained by other industries.

Who said anything about magic? The point is simply that if the financial services sector in the UK shrinks by, say, 50,000 jobs (number out of thin air), those 50,000 who lost their jobs will either leave the UK or go into other industries. If the latter, you will over time see an improvement in those industries, because they'll have gained new talent.

1. I am sure that people in the financial sector will be grateful of the opportunity to earn a tenth of their current salary.

If they were happy to do that they'd never have gone into financial services in the first place. It's possible for a policy to benefit a nation at the expense of some individuals in it, you know.

2. Oh, I'm sorry I've just read your second point and this is really is not worth my time....

Because... what? Can't think of a counter-argument?

= + =

... read again

"The UK is an island with it´s most meaningful natural resource being fresh water, whoopdidoo."

That's what you said.

Yes, there is a reason, namely the EU, because the UK reamain full member until it leaves and as a full member it can´t negotiate trade deals on its own.

Lol no. The UK can negotiate all it wants, it just can't execute on those deals whilst it's a member. It is entirely possible, sensible, and practical, to work out deals in advance of leaving the EU, and sign them into law (etc) 30 seconds after leaving the EU.

Also, don't forget that countries have been known to do things on the sly. I'm sure there are negotiations ongoing about the Brexit deal right now even though Article 50 hasn't been activated. Officials meeting each other unofficially over lunch and such and thrashing out plans that will be formally proposed after Article 50 is done.

The regulatory regime known as country borders?

Well, yes, among other things.

France says that only French banks can invest in French companies. So Megabank (in London) finds a loophole to establish a (legal) outfit in France, and uses that to invest in French companies.

How are they going to attract talent?

You've a physics PhD from Oxford and have been attracted by the big money in the City of London to get into the financial sector. Then Brexit happens, and you lose your job, and have to find work elsewhere. You leave the City of London for BAE Systems ("hey, maybe I can put my PhD to use here!"), where you end up working on a home-grown railgun project, or laser weapons, or whatever.

I mean sure, you could also opt to leave the UK, but you see how a diminution in the City's function as a brain drain can benefit other industries?

Yes, devaluing also means you´ll have to pay more for the components you need to do your manufacturing. You already devalued your currency by 20% how much did that help the economy?

Yes, it means foreign imports (of any kind) are more expensive - and anyone claiming devaluing a currency is a cost-free solution is delusional. My point was only to use it as an example of how the UK can help mitigate the shock of exiting the EU.

I never said such thing.

"The UK will beg for new trade agreements with other countries just to stay afloat"

My emphasis. Businesses that go bankrupt are businesses that failed to stay afloat - unless of course you've unilaterally redefined what that phrase means in an economic context, and just failed to inform us mere mortals.

However, given that you're the guy who says stuff like this:

"So everything they want to export, they have to import something first"

I'm frankly more inclined to just assume you are all-but economically illiterate. As proof of your illiteracy though, here's the UK balance of trade for you:

[Tijuana]

Lots of ifs and maybes to make such a claim. Even if le pen wins and that is a pretty big if, talking about leaving to gather votes and actually leaving are two entirely different things.

I mean, if you think it's just a crazy idea that the EU is in trouble, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. /shrug

[Mayhem]

"The UK is an island with it´s most meaningful natural resource being fresh water, whoopdidoo."

That's what you said.

Yes and? It´s not oil, it´s not gas, it´s not something like that, it´s fresh water.

Lol no. The UK can negotiate all it wants, it just can't execute on those deals whilst it's a member. It is entirely possible, sensible, and practical, to work out deals in advance of leaving the EU, and sign them into law (etc) 30 seconds after leaving the EU.

Also, don't forget that countries have been known to do things on the sly. I'm sure there are negotiations ongoing about the Brexit deal right now even though Article 50 hasn't been activated. Officials meeting each other unofficially over lunch and such and thrashing out plans that will be formally proposed after Article 50 is done.

Mhm ok, sure.

Well, yes, among other things.

France says that only French banks can invest in French companies. So Megabank (in London) finds a loophole to establish a (legal) outfit in France, and uses that to invest in French companies.

No, that´s the fucking point, they must do that, but doing that also means that everything they do in france will be taxed in france, so a loss for the UK.

You've a physics PhD from Oxford and have been attracted by the big money in the City of London to get into the financial sector. Then Brexit happens, and you lose your job, and have to find work elsewhere. You leave the City of London for BAE Systems ("hey, maybe I can put my PhD to use here!"), where you end up working on a home-grown railgun project, or laser weapons, or whatever.

I mean sure, you could also opt to leave the UK, but you see how a diminution in the City's function as a brain drain can benefit other industries?

Why should they settle for companies in the UK that pay less than companies abroad that pay more? Are you under the idea that those jobs just vanish?

Yes, it means foreign imports (of any kind) are more expensive - and anyone claiming devaluing a currency is a cost-free solution is delusional. My point was only to use it as an example of how the UK can help mitigate the shock of exiting the EU.

And you import about 30bn more than you export, how in the flying fuck is devaluing your currency going to help when all it achieves is making imports more expensive and exports less profitable?

"The UK will beg for new trade agreements with other countries just to stay afloat"

My emphasis. Businesses that go bankrupt are businesses that failed to stay afloat - unless of course you've unilaterally redefined what that phrase means in an economic context, and just failed to inform us mere mortals.

However, given that you're the guy who says stuff like this:

"So everything they want to export, they have to import something first"

I'm frankly more inclined to just assume you are all-but economically illiterate. As proof of your illiteracy though, here's the UK balance of trade for you:

What are you even talking? How is that not proving my point?

- - - Updated - - -

I mean, if you think it's just a crazy idea that the EU is in trouble, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. /shrug

I think trouble is a big word for the situation, so yep we disagree.

[Pann]

Who said anything about magic? The point is simply that if the financial services sector in the UK shrinks by, say, 50,000 jobs (number out of thin air), those 50,000 who lost their jobs will either leave the UK or go into other industries. If the latter, you will over time see an improvement in those industries, because they'll have gained new talent.

For crying out loud the world does not work like that. If the financial sector shrinks by 50,000 jobs not everyone will be able to find jobs. The higher up staff will be able to find alternative employment but the junior staff will be not be so lucky. However it will the low skilled workers do not work the financial sector but are reliant on them, the cleaners, the waiters in local cafes and restaurants, the maintenance contractors, etc, etc that will hardest hit.

Where are these jobs for the 50,000+ people that have just entered the job market going to come from?

If they were happy to do that they'd never have gone into financial services in the first place. It's possible for a policy to benefit a nation at the expense of some individuals in it, you know.

I don't know anyone who would be happy to find their salary cut by 90%. Yeah, mass unemployment is always a benefit?!?

Because... what? Can't think of a counter-argument?

No, because what you wrote was weapons grade idiocy and I simply cannot be bothered with it.

[Kardagh]

Hollande thinks bashing his fellow European nations will boost his abysmal ratings.

To paraphrase what the Polish PM said recently about him: "Why should we take a president with a 4% approval rating by his own people seriously?"

[Tijuana]

A point that is likely lost on Hollande, is that the EU will also lose all perks of the UK.

[Mayhem]

A point that is likely lost on Hollande, is that the EU will also lose all perks of the UK.

Do you have some examples? Genuinely curious here.

[Tijuana]

Do you have some examples? Genuinely curious here.

Money. Also, money. Lastly, money.

[Pua]

I would have thought this was a given.

It is, yes. If the UK were to have all the benefits of being in the European Union, with none of the drawbacks, then... What's the point in the European Union?

That's why the trade deal agreement is going to be somewhere slightly better than WTO regulations, and not much. Britain doesn't really export, and financial centres will move when Britain leaves the EU, so there's no real benefit. Scotland, the only nation in the UK with a trade surplus, is likely to end up independent as a result of Brexit, and will maintain its spot in the EU as a result.

[Mayhem]

Money. Also, money. Lastly, money.

Oh, ok i thought you had something in mind that was actually a point backed up and not the argumentation of a bad investment banker.

[Tijuana]

Oh, ok i thought you had something in mind that was actually a point backed up and not the argumentation of a bad investment banker.

LOL

So salty.....wow.

[psyquest]

About 44% of UK exports in goods and services went to other countries in the EU in 2015—£220 billion out of £510 billion total exports.

EU export 16% of its goods to the UK out of 1.8Trillions.

https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-eu-trade/

https://fullfact.org/europe/where-does-eu-export/

and that is not even taking into account the other things that the EU brings in the table.

The UK better play their cards right but there is no way they will be getting a better deal than a member.

[Mayhem]

LOL

So salty.....wow.

I´m not salty, disappointed maybe.