Top Player Bans

[Dangg]

If you didn't know that the majority of the top guilds were doing it with the intensity you saw solely for the money, you have been living under a rock.

This was going on for at least three-four years. At least.

The leak for Method is perhaps illustrative, but it's nothing - nothing at all - new. Exorsus and others were doing it quite openly for a long time, check out the boosting sites.

Solely for the money which is like 500 - 1000 bucks per progress? Seems more like a byproduct. Otherwise that would be terrible €/hour salary.

[silverstarzs]

I will merely comment that if this is how the Dev's believe 'moral authority' should be exercised (extremely inconsistent enforcement and punishment, no explanation or evidence, false positives and negatives with no appeal) then I hope they dont ever raise children.

[rda]

As I've already said in this thread, we all knew they were doing it.

But as far as I know this the first proof? Especially interesting to see the money situation is causing drama in method

I don't know, I saw guys from top guilds talk about boosting openly even in the interviews. I think this is a matter of paying attention.

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Solely for the money which is like 500 - 1000 bucks per progress? Seems more like a byproduct. Otherwise that would be terrible €/hour salary.

Yes, that's a terrible salary, but young guys - particularly from countries where it is difficult for them to find jobs - convince themselves that this is a good option.

If there was no money the race would have been much tamer, guaranteed.

[Killface1]

Method has more leaks than a Trump administration.

[vandris]

Poor Method, it looks like someone is trying to bring them down with all these leaks.

[rda]

As I've already said in this thread, we all knew they were doing it.

But as far as I know this the first proof? Especially interesting to see the money situation is causing drama in method

BTW, here is a *very* quick way to check whether a particular guild is selling boosts - go to their forum and ask them if they are selling boosts in PM. They will either quote you prices in the PM reply right there and then, or at the very most will pretend that no, they don't do things like that, but point you to a boosting service (with which they are connected and which uses them as pilots).

[hulkgor]

haha, first time i see that method boards pic\leak.

i wonder if blizzard looked into them

[razlopp]

Just to keep in mind that money split from Method often doesn't include dedicated sales runs after progress. The money that's being generated is much more than anyone thinks, much, much more....

[coprax]

Method looks a bit like a criminal organization now; I wonder if they declare and tax those incomes.

[Kreeshak]

Poor Method, it looks like someone is trying to bring them down with all these leaks.

Poor method? Boosting artificially raised the expectations of raiding, which in turn resulted in the average raider being victimized: "you are not good enough" "curve or gtfo" etc etc

[razlopp]

I want to point out that Method is not even close to the top seller of these runs, we just happen to have all those images leak. There are other guilds out there promoting and going for sales where method has it as a more side operation. We're talking 100's thousands per guild if not more per tier through these runs. It's actually disgusting, which is why the top guilds are ALL doing it. You'd be surprise how much money people will spend on a raid spot for gear.

[silverstarzs]

Just to keep in mind that money split from Method often doesn't include dedicated sales runs after progress. The money that's being generated is much more than anyone thinks, much, much more....

Method also has two players/sponsors (from the UAE if I remember correctly) who are pretty flush and kick money into the guild and in return are allowed to play and raid with the team (not in progression ofc).

I have no idea what Bliz thinks of that arrangement - is that real money for boost (eg they would not be able to play with method without kicking in the $ and so against the terms) or is that team sponsorship (which I believe is ok but am not totally sure when it includes rl $ and in game activities with the sponsors)

But the plain fact is that all three top guilds are attempting to be 'fully pro' which means getting paid rl $ to play and they are looking for those $ everywhere they can. . . . and as exorsus pointed out in their letter, since there are no big prize money, the biggest available pool of money comes from in game help to other players.

Bliz can not pussy foot around this. Either they want and find valuable pro teams at the top of the game in which case they have to allow those teams to make money, or they want to flush out all the pro players in which case they have to crack down rather more forcefully on the rl $ economy. They can't have it both ways - which seems to be what they want now.

[Socialhealer]

They reported no sub numbers. Since they felt they had to report an increase in something, they reported an increase in "MAUs". Compared to the last year = middle of WoD.

which is my point no exact sub numbers just a higher or lower than, not the most reliable figures.

[Emancptr]

Just to keep in mind that money split from Method often doesn't include dedicated sales runs after progress. The money that's being generated is much more than anyone thinks, much, much more....

Yep, the Method $ numbers mentioned in that post are most likely only from "Guild Mythic Sales." This would include 13/13 HFC clears, mythic mounts, and Mythic EN clears. In general, these sales amount to ~10-20% of the total sales volume for boosters. The majority of money in boosting (4-5x what is being talked about in the Method post) comes from Challenge Modes/Mythic+ and Achievement Boosting.

And, as Razlopp mentioned Method is not the pinnacle of sales. They are focused on Progression and Split farming Heroic during the first weeks of new content. While a dedicated sales guild will push as many sales runs as they can in the first weeks. Prices for things like H Gul'Dan Ahead of the Curve quickly drop off in value after the 2nd week.

Also, this kind of leak is what Blizzard needs if they are really interested in banning real money sales. There are always at least 1-2 people unhappy with the money from their boosting group. Find those people and they will give you all the information you need to identify and properly ban the group.

We're talking 100's thousands per guild if not more per tier through these runs. It's actually disgusting, which is why the top guilds are ALL doing it. You'd be surprise how much money people will spend on a raid spot for gear.

Yep, the sales group that I worked with was regularly pushing $20-30k per month in boosting. With the majority (75%+) being split between 5-10 people (the Mythic+/Achievement boosters). With a side pot (about the size of Method's) being split amongst remaining members.

[razlopp]

Yep, the Method $ numbers mentioned in that post are most likely only from "Guild Mythic Sales." This would include 13/13 HFC clears, mythic mounts, and Mythic EN clears. In general, these sales amount to ~10-20% of the total sales volume for boosters. The majority of money in boosting (4-5x what is being talked about in the Method post) comes from Challenge Modes/Mythic+ and Achievement Boosting.

And, as Razlopp mentioned Method is not the pinnacle of sales. They are focused on Progression and Split farming Heroic during the first weeks of new content. While a dedicated sales guild will push as many sales runs as they can in the first weeks. Prices for things like H Gul'Dan Ahead of the Curve quickly drop off in value after the 2nd week.

Also, this kind of leak is what Blizzard needs if they are really interested in banning real money sales. There is always at least 1-2 people unhappy with the money from their boosting group. Find those people and they will give you all the information you need to identify and properly ban the group.

You summarized it pretty perfectly, only reason I wanted to make a point out of it was it seems like people arn't understanding how much is actually going on. Exorsus I believe even show'd the general public of the inner workings of top guilds with their Helya Post when they got banned.

[Deleted]

Poor method? Boosting artificially raised the expectations of raiding, which in turn resulted in the average raider being victimized: "you are not good enough" "curve or gtfo" etc etc

Main things that caused "curve or gtfo" is xrealm raiding and serapate cooldowns on raid difficulties. Because it made replacing players much easier. And it's not like no one asked you about achievements before that. Boosting always existed in this game.

[Kreeshak]

Main things that caused "curve or gtfo" is xrealm raiding and serapate cooldowns on raid difficulties. Because it made replacing players much easier. And it's not like no one asked you about achievements before that. Boosting always existed in this game.

I agree that boosting always existed in this game. However if it was minor in vanilla, and not common in tbc, it got bigger every expansion to turn out a complete joke nowadays.

[razlopp]

It's like nah, these were all for gold, 100% xD



1460, kinda broke the armory a bit lol

[rda]

I agree that boosting always existed in this game. However if it was minor in vanilla, and not common in tbc, it got bigger every expansion to turn out a complete joke nowadays.

Thank the game that stopped being interesting to play just to play and have fun, and Blizzard adding things like WoW token = reason to charge for everything, because gold is serious business now, it means free play time (and is easier sold to gold buyers / sellers).

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By the way, regarding "proofs" and whatnot of top guilds selling boosts, here's an excerpt from one of the recent threads on reddit from Exorsus:

"3) "Boosting" - as i've already stated in 3rd paragraph, every guild needs to attract and keep people by some ways, other that "we're top guild, it's so fun to be on progress site top rankings". Because of that and the fact, that there are 0 tournaments or opportunities to somehow get any $ from top raiding (apart from streaming) every top guild is selling boosts for real life money. So by paying ~100-1000 USD/EUR you can get your piloted (yes, even with account sharing) / selfplay raid / Mythic+ run with a top guild. And if, for some reason, you're interested in buying something every week, you may even stay in this top guild (finding examples is not that hard simply by observing some "strange" raiders in wowprogress roster), to avoid confusion on the streams etc (however most of them anyway using addons, which replacing nicknames on raid frames and damage meters to avoid questions on streams). Once again, it's not something every guild is doing because they enjoy it, it simply a matter of surviving because of the fact, that "PvE race" is not something that by any means acknowledged by Blizzard. The sad part is, that a lot of guilds are now completely abandoned such thing as progression and just simply focusing themselves on boosting as many clients as possible."

As you can see, they are talking quite openly that boosting is something they and others do, they just try to paint it as something they have been "forced" to do. The reality is, these boosts are exactly why they are doing this stupid "PVE race" at all.

The URL for the reddit thread:

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...nd_some_other/

[Kreeshak]

Thank the game that stopped being interesting to play just to play and have fun, and Blizzard adding things like WoW token = reason to charge for everything, because gold is serious business now, it means free play time (and is easier sold to gold buyers / sellers).

Agree. My main objection, and why I posted in this topic, is people trying to pass "boosting" as something harmless or natural.