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  1. #1

    Struggling with DPS on all 3 specs

    Been struggling with DPS this xpac.

    Curious if anyone has any feedback, character is Warkhat on Spirestone (Warcraft logs has plenty of heroic and 1 Mythic NH kill).


    Primarily I'm wondering if I'm wasting my time trying to play Fire without the belt or bracers. Figured I would try out frost/arcane, but I think I may be doing the arcane rotation improperly or something because a guildie always smashes me on AoE fights. He does have the shard, though, so this might be part of the issue.

    In WoD, it was common for me to parse blue or better for every single fight unless I died early. I have been playing mage since Wrath and never struggled this bad so late into an expansion.

    Another issue is AP, I have only had enough time to grind 35/38/47 frost/arcane/fire points. I prefer fire but understand it is going to be poop for Krosus.

    We had our first Skorpyron kill last night and I was in the 19th percentile. I think part of this is because I tried focusing my (horrible ST) DPS onto the boss the last 15ish percent, and also might want to consider Incanter's Flow over Rune of Power. But it was still discouraging, and having to convince my guild leader to allow me to come for progression fights is painful/new.

    Any feedback on talents or whether or I just need to readjust my expectations is appreciated.

    ~Kat

  2. #2
    fire pretty suck at this patch. Cos was hardly nerfed. Also only 3 set items have crit. And its not head or chest. Suck trinkets for fire etc. Arcane and frost much easier for play and gearing. Also mages just suck overall. Hybrids in top again. "thx blizzard". Another patch where "glass cannon" is actually "suck glass". Except the very first boss scorpyron. We share top here with locks.

  3. #3
    You need to readjust your mentality from prior xpacs if you want to keep playing mage. If you want to compete, forget about maximizing boss damage, stop caring about the boss, you have to find any opportunity to pad and time things to maximize your padding. Don't miss living bomb opportunities, spread ignite anywhere and everywhere, don't worry about progression at all, because you aren't going to be there and will end up sitting if you miss any opportunities to snipe pad damage.

    and yeah, low expectations is the way to go, you're not going to top meters on anything but Skorp unless you're playing with worse players.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Visor View Post
    fire pretty suck at this patch. Cos was hardly nerfed. Also only 3 set items have crit. And its not head or chest. Suck trinkets for fire etc. Arcane and frost much easier for play and gearing. Also mages just suck overall. Hybrids in top again. "thx blizzard". Another patch where "glass cannon" is actually "suck glass". Except the very first boss scorpyron. We share top here with locks.
    If you think frost sucks then you clearly suck, not the spec. Sorry.

    OP: Frost is quite ilvl reliant and traitreliant but once you get it up a bit higher I'd recommend using it for every fight in NH. You won't be pulling even with your frostmage guildie for a while because he has the ring and you don't (it's crazy good for frost) while he also has 13 more traits and better gear. If you want to do competitive dps though, forget fire since you've had shit luck with legendaries and just go frost. Glacial spike is easier to play but has slightly lower damage potential so it's probably a good start compared to thermal void.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by fiestatastic View Post
    You need to readjust your mentality from prior xpacs if you want to keep playing mage. If you want to compete, forget about maximizing boss damage, stop caring about the boss, you have to find any opportunity to pad and time things to maximize your padding. Don't miss living bomb opportunities, spread ignite anywhere and everywhere, don't worry about progression at all, because you aren't going to be there and will end up sitting if you miss any opportunities to snipe pad damage.

    and yeah, low expectations is the way to go, you're not going to top meters on anything but Skorp unless you're playing with worse players.
    Or just forget fire and play frost which is actually competitive without legendaries and one of, if not the, best caster spec with legendaries.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Adudu View Post
    If you think frost sucks then you clearly suck, not the spec. Sorry.
    ye...thats why i see tons of frost mages in top. Oh soz. I dont see them. What a surprize.

    http://worldoflogs.com/ranking/eu-us/the-nighthold/dps/

    "best caster spec"? Are u fking kidding?

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/11#boss=1866
    and here we see tons of mages too.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Visor View Post
    ye...thats why i see tons of frost mages in top. Oh soz. I dont see them. What a surprize.

    http://worldoflogs.com/ranking/eu-us/the-nighthold/dps/

    "best caster spec"? Are u fking kidding?

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/11#boss=1866
    and here we see tons of mages too.
    i dont know what you want.

    Frost mage is top on half of the boss. Pretty much any boss without add padding. And they still doing really really well on other half with add.

    I dont know what else you want. Fire willl never top single target because their insane aoe and cleave. I think every expansion arcane usually top spec with end game gear.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Visor View Post
    ye...thats why i see tons of frost mages in top. Oh soz. I dont see them. What a surprize.

    http://worldoflogs.com/ranking/eu-us/the-nighthold/dps/

    "best caster spec"? Are u fking kidding?

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/11#boss=1866
    and here we see tons of mages too.
    Argues against best caster spec. Links a bunch of melees. Seriously dude. Frost mage is in a great place right now. It's in top 3 if not #1 on non-add bosses for casters across the board. It can't quite keep up with add cleave on spellblade, tichondrius and skorpyron. Just because it's not #1 on every single fight doesn't mean it's bad. Fire is in an awful place right now because across the board their strength is pretty much useless. Frost does not have the same problem at all.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Adudu View Post
    Argues against best caster spec. Links a bunch of melees. Seriously dude. Frost mage is in a great place right now. It's in top 3 if not #1 on non-add bosses for casters across the board. It can't quite keep up with add cleave on spellblade, tichondrius and skorpyron. Just because it's not #1 on every single fight doesn't mean it's bad. Fire is in an awful place right now because across the board their strength is pretty much useless. Frost does not have the same problem at all.
    #1 and #1 for casters are two different things. casters in general are too weak compared to melee right now. the only reason frost does so well is because of double IL which is getting fixed anyway.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by kheath812 View Post
    #1 and #1 for casters are two different things. casters in general are too weak compared to melee right now. the only reason frost does so well is because of double IL which is getting fixed anyway.
    That's just not the case. even at 75th percentile frost is very strong and for heavy double IL impact you're going to be looking at 90%+ realistically. Most frost mages don't even know about it.

    Also, he was arguing against the fact that I said it's probably the #1 caster right now. #1 overall is cool, but it isn't for everyone since there's more than 15 dps specs, as far as frost's place in the overall hierarchy, it's completely fine. Again, fire is in a shitty place because even a top performing fire mage is going to struggle to keep up with a pretty mediocre DH/furywar/frostdk. That's not the case for frost.

  10. #10
    Hey dude, you really need to stick to one spec. They're all nuanced and subject to big swings in dps based on artifact level. So figure out which one is most fun and work hard at it.

    I've personally been arcane this entire xpac and it hasn't failed me. If I were new, I'd probably play frost because part of the reason I rolled mage is to have Ice Floes but also because frost isn't as dependent on legendaries and you're late to the xpac.

    /laugh at the world of logs link. Who's actually still using that site? warcraftlogs is where people are playing, friend.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by twistedmynd View Post
    /laugh at the world of logs link. Who's actually still using that site? warcraftlogs is where people are playing, friend.
    These f-ckers deleted my r2 logs from pandaria but kept some green logs with 30% of my dps... sigh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adudu View Post
    Again, fire is in a shitty place because even a top performing fire mage is going to struggle to keep up with a pretty mediocre DH/furywar/frostdk. That's not the case for frost.
    Fire is really struggling on ST, yes. But fury war, affli lock, ele sham can still shit on you on aoe. If adds die fast or there is too few, you're not gonna be on top. Aluriel and correct tactics for skorp say hi.
    Last edited by Imaskar; 2017-03-21 at 06:28 AM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Imaskar View Post
    These f-ckers deleted my r2 logs from pandaria but kept some green logs with 30% of my dps... sigh.


    Fire is really struggling on ST, yes. But fury war, affli lock, ele sham can still shit on you on aoe. If adds die fast or there is too few, you're not gonna be on top. Aluriel and correct tactics for skorp say hi.
    Afflock struggles more than fire at burst aoe so I don't know why you put them in there. They also, like fire, don't benefit hugely from small add packs. This is of course all ignoring that nothing you said really goes against anything I said. Fire is in a great place for stacked aoe. It's one of the top specs for it. Fire is horrible at ST and badly needs a buff in that department, along with a severe nerf to the bracers. It's arguably the worst spec design wise as it's ability to shine in any scenario demands the right legendaries.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Adudu View Post
    Afflock struggles more than fire at burst aoe so I don't know why you put them in there. They also, like fire, don't benefit hugely from small add packs. This is of course all ignoring that nothing you said really goes against anything I said. Fire is in a great place for stacked aoe. It's one of the top specs for it. Fire is horrible at ST and badly needs a buff in that department, along with a severe nerf to the bracers. It's arguably the worst spec design wise as it's ability to shine in any scenario demands the right legendaries.
    soulflame is insane.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by kheath812 View Post
    soulflame is insane.
    this, i did more than 1M on lfr skorpy with barely the required ilvl to enter lfr
    You think you do, but you don't ©
    Rogues are fine ©
    We're pretty happy with rogues ©
    Haste will fix it ©

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by kheath812 View Post
    soulflame is insane.
    It's also weaker than LB.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Visor View Post
    ye...thats why i see tons of frost mages in top. Oh soz. I dont see them. What a surprize.

    http://worldoflogs.com/ranking/eu-us/the-nighthold/dps/

    "best caster spec"? Are u fking kidding?

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/11#boss=1866
    and here we see tons of mages too.
    Im sorry, but you are reading logs completely incorrect. You are purely look at the TOP parses only, which honestly is kinda irrelevant unless you are playing top 100 DPS in the world, you want to look at it from a percentile standpoint, that is much more encompassing what the spec is capable of. Also using a boss with so few registered kills is kinda silly if you are collecting how the spec performs. At least use mythic bosses with more kills.

    Using logs, 90th percentile mythic for every boss (except skorp, just go fire even if your weapon sucks)
    Anomaly- 8th Best DPS Spec
    Trilliax- 8th Best DPS Spec
    Spellblade- 16th Best DPS Spec (Arcane works wonders here if your weapon is even decent)
    Tich-(Just go fire)
    Krosus- 8th Best DPS Spec
    Botanist- Mage's worst fight here, none of the specs do super well, Frost being the best at just below average.
    Magistrix-5th Best DPS Spec
    Gul'dan- Slightly below average

    That is far from sucking, we have been in far worse positions in this expansion, and hell even in this raid tier. On top of that if you swap this difficulty to heroic Frost is one of the best DPS specs out of all specs playing at 90th Percentile, not just casters. The gap isn't so wide the spec is unviable at top tier raiding, and its more than competitive, being probably only behind DK's in heroic difficulty.
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueGender View Post
    What does it matter? I have NEVER seen a warlock ever attempt to climb their way out of being terrible and cast their infernal or doomguard. I simply say, "cast your doomguard/infernal" and they raise their noses at me as if they know any better. It is so obvious that they /Athene, SUCK.
    Wat?

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Adudu View Post
    It's also weaker than LB.
    not really.

  18. #18
    Thanks for the feedback!

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