Mafia #81 - Game Thread - Mario Kart Madness

[Graeham]

Oh yeah crackle cause having reads within 8 or so hours is so easy. We all know I get my early reads from end of day trains. Until then it'll be very minor if no reads.

[Reticence]

Unvote
Vote: Palawin

[Graeham]

Hello, Reticence!

[dupti]

I'd be more concerned with items used near the end of the day, honestly. Some of those pack a punch.

See, this is the thing I have a problem with because this should never be the case.

If someone uses an item during the end of the day to get someone modkilled, then they're probably not town. In other words if you are town then you shouldn't try to get people modkilled. I don't think any town should use items near the deadline, at least not the ones that take away posts from other players.

I have a feeling that Dupti is scum, anyway, after his exchange with Danner so...

Vote: Dupti

I don't really care if you're scumreading me, but if it is based on my exchange with Danner it seems to suggest you didn't understand what happened. But this whole gut thing is probably more likely to come from town Graeham. Meh.

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The Danner/Dupti thing. I'm gonna have to side with Danner here. I think the item interactions will have serious information later in the game. Though most of it will become hidden, but it will be obvious whose not revealing it and not just using mushrooms. As of right now its kinda whatever, but still something to take note.

You think it will have serious information later? Please give me a scenario where that is the case.

The only real possible play is to use it near the deadline to get a person modkilled, but if you do that as town then you're dumb. I really can't see this happening.

It's also possible to use it during the night, but seeing as we won't know who did it that won't give us any information either.

So the fact that Danner made an association read based on Catta stealing from listo early on d1 when all items are listed in the op is a super weak read whether he agrees or not. I'm not saying his read isn't correct, but the reasoning is questionable at best.

As for the night, the only play scum would be able to do is to spam items at 1 player, but that player could just tell the rest of the game during the day and I'd gladly spam to let him get his post count up. On the other hand we can't town clear a player if he says this as it could be a lie.

So once again unless you think town are dumb, could you explain to me how it will be serious information later? Have I missed something?

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Throw Banana Peel at Ret

hey me and ret are totally not scumbuddies now

[Crackleslap]

@dupti because of thr grand champion. Theres one ultimate winner. Patterns can be formed through actions. Everyone would probably use their items to keep them in front. Scum will cordinate probably where their items go. For a chance of a second. Information can be seen or it can not be seen. Either way information is gathered wherr shit is going. Having the threat of patternerd gathering could force scum into not coordinating nullifying a benefit. Serious information is probably over selling it. I think town SHOULD throw shit each other, but not massively at one target. Keeping a nice balance. Eliminates oppurtunity or it reveals it.

And yes items shouldnt be thrown at end of day. I mean you dont have to throw stuff at town, but you wont be the utlimate winner.

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In which, is agree that throwing items is probably pointless until nearing the end of game.

[Danner]

@dupti: Does the fact that items are listed in the OP matter?

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I'll spell out my reasoning here. Whether you agree with it or not is not relevant.
Ultimately, an organized scumteam want to maximise their chances.

Stealing from others is a good way to net gain something, while hurting opponents. To steal from your scummates is just plain silly. Doing so means an organized scumteam didn't gain anything as a team, but rather lost a steal powerup. That is the same as throwing it away.

I do however not believe the powerups matter a whole lot until very late gameday time, where it really really might. An organized scumteam might focus down a player easily. Not much we can do about that, beyond gather protective shells.

--

So to those of you actually using those protective shells for tomfoolery - I'm not sure if you haven't thought about that much, or if you just consider yourself out of pressure range, or at the point where you just think you can get more. I'd recommend sticking to them towards the end of the day either way.

[Xanjori]

I got hit by a banana

COWARD

Someone told us you were a fan.



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See, this is the thing I have a problem with because this should never be the case.

If someone uses an item during the end of the day to get someone modkilled, then they're probably not town. In other words if you are town then you shouldn't try to get people modkilled. I don't think any town should use items near the deadline, at least not the ones that take away posts from other players

I feel like active people won't really run the risk of being mod-killed. I'd hope the mod is providing enough mushrooms or what have you, or just a good amount of posts is enough to prevent that from happening. Sure I guess scum could arrange some kinda nuclear strike on one person that may achieve it, but that would be grossly imbalanced and hopefully not in the game.

[Monkz]

Not gonna lie. I woke up to 14 new pages of posts. Not gonna read them all. I'm sure you all had a blast though!

[Xanjori]

Yeah honestly the only actual discussion occured on this last page. Unless you want to note who hit who with what, it's not really worth reading.

[Marack]

At least the was just over a page in the 8 hours or so I was off. Now for work. I bet I wont be as lucky when I get home

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There was also some discussion back around page 8-10 (i think it was there) about the merits of people basing reads on item usage (or garnering some information for reads from item usasge.

[Largehorn]

Well I have to stick to my promise and give ret a strong town read. (Subject to change)

I dislike people who claim to have no reads (Listo/Large - the ones I've asked so far). I mean they wont be very strong obvious, but I feel you should have something. They have points deducted
...

I did not see this. What's a Cruelle innocent child? Maybe I'm a crackleslap innocent child?

I have default buckets that people normally start in. For example, Virothe is assumed town until proven otherwise (like I've already said). I could go through the entire list but then people would know what bucket they fell into and I would have to shuffle them. That my friends, sounds like an awful lot of work. So I'm going to pass.

More so since we still aren't even at the 24 hour mark.

I'll spell out my reasoning here. Whether you agree with it or not is not relevant.
Ultimately, an organized scumteam want to maximise their chances.

Stealing from others is a good way to net gain something, while hurting opponents. To steal from your scummates is just plain silly. Doing so means an organized scumteam didn't gain anything as a team, but rather lost a steal powerup. That is the same as throwing it away.

I do however not believe the powerups matter a whole lot until very late gameday time, where it really really might. An organized scumteam might focus down a player easily. Not much we can do about that, beyond gather protective shells.

--

So to those of you actually using those protective shells for tomfoolery - I'm not sure if you haven't thought about that much, or if you just consider yourself out of pressure range, or at the point where you just think you can get more. I'd recommend sticking to them towards the end of the day either way.

I'm going to have to agree with this. I don't think there are going to many situations where a scum team would "sabotage" themselves by going after a team mate. Not until at least there was only themselves left at which point does it really matter?

[dupti]

@dupti because of thr grand champion. Theres one ultimate winner. Patterns can be formed through actions.

I fail to see how that is relevant. The grand champion is a secondary win bonus that first comes into play when a faction has (or is about to) win. There are no patterns, what happens right now has no influence on what is going to happen then. In fact I think it's safe to ignore the whole grand champion thing for now.

@dupti: Does the fact that items are listed in the OP matter?

Kinda, point was merely that there is no reason for them to keep/hide items.

Stealing from others is a good way to net gain something, while hurting opponents. To steal from your scummates is just plain silly. Doing so means an organized scumteam didn't gain anything as a team, but rather lost a steal powerup. That is the same as throwing it away.

Okay see that's the thing Danner for some reason you find the effects of the items to be much stronger, when all it does it affect post counts.
The items are only going to get strategic value if we let them, which is why I am saying that town should not use post reducing items on another player during the end of the day, even if it isn't going to have any impact it does give scum an excuse to do this later on, which would be very risky.

In any case, I think the game speaks for itself. Everyone is just using it for fluff, which is pretty much what it is. I think the main reason Kryllian put it into the game was just to encourage activity and for someone to 'pressure' inactive players by forcing them to talk. That means that stealing from a scummate this early on d1 means absolutely nothing except that some people might consider it distancing.

I do however not believe the powerups matter a whole lot until very late gameday time, where it really really might. An organized scumteam might focus down a player easily. Not much we can do about that, beyond gather protective shells.

An organized scumteam might focus down a player easily? Okay let's go over that Danner.

The possible plays scum can do with the items:

1) Use it during the day phase. For it to be a coordinated play, they would have to use all their stuff on a specific player during the end of the day. For that to be possible, it means that they would have to make sure all of them got a post reducing item (keep in mind you can only have 1 item at a time and when you get a new one you discard the old one). It would also mean all of them would have to do it publicly, basically outing themselves (which is why it is important town do not make it 'acceptable' to do this, so town obviously not throw items near the deadline). Could make a bit more sense in lylo, but the actual post reduction would still be very limited and it would very easy to counter town just make sure to get several posts in.
2) Use it during the night phase. In that case they would have to dump it all on one player. Once again, they'd have to save all their items for the night phase. It's also very important that giving out an item counts as a night action, so unless they don't want to nk (and/or have other PRs) they can't all give items out. The targeted player will also be notified and can simply tell town about it in the day phase and just spam.

So all in all, there's no play to make Danner, unless town end up making it acceptable to throw out crap near the end of the day and even in that case it's pretty unlikely. The mechanic is just meant as a fun way to force people to post and I sincerely doubt Kryllian designed it to have scum coordinate modkills, but even if he did it's very easy to counter.

So to those of you actually using those protective shells for tomfoolery - I'm not sure if you haven't thought about that much, or if you just consider yourself out of pressure range, or at the point where you just think you can get more. I'd recommend sticking to them towards the end of the day either way.

Once agian, you can only have 1 item at a time. It's unlikely you get to save it unless you stop posting. This is also why it is so much harder for scum to coordinate, because they risk they get a new item which means the old one gets discarded.

Anyway just to return to your Catta/Listo read, I don't believe that Catta putting it on Listo means they can't ever be together. It meant absolutely nothing at that point and had no impact on the game whatsoever. I'm not saying they're teammates, but I certainly don't think this clears them.

[Xanjori]

1) Use it during the day phase. For it to be a coordinated play, they would have to use all their stuff on a specific player during the end of the day. For that to be possible, it means that they would have to make sure all of them got a post reducing item (keep in mind you can only have 1 item at a time and when you get a new one you discard the old one). It would also mean all of them would have to do it publicly, .

Didn't the mod already announce that it can be done in secret via QTs?

[dupti]

I feel like active people won't really run the risk of being mod-killed. I'd hope the mod is providing enough mushrooms or what have you, or just a good amount of posts is enough to prevent that from happening. Sure I guess scum could arrange some kinda nuclear strike on one person that may achieve it, but that would be grossly imbalanced and hopefully not in the game.

Agreed, my point was mostly just that scum would only be able to make such a play if town makes it acceptable to spam items near the deadline, which is why I believe town shouldn't do it.

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Didn't the mod already announce that it can be done in secret via QTs?

Ohhh, I think I might've mixed it up. I thought if it was done via QTs it would be a night action

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@Danner, it seems like I missed the fact that you could do it via QTs during the day phase, in that case I understand where you are coming from.

[Largehorn]

Agreed, my point was mostly just that scum would only be able to make such a play if town makes it acceptable to spam items near the deadline, which is why I believe town shouldn't do it.

But they could feasibly catch someone one by focusing through the QT and if that player happens to not be active.....

I don't think it's going to be likely, but it could still occur especially if they can manage to do it quickly and then end the day. That's a potential two for one.

If the targeted player can't get that information out fast enough

[dupti]

I wish we had a post count.

[Largehorn]

@Danner, it seems like I missed the fact that you could do it via QTs during the day phase, in that case I understand where you are coming from.

wasn't fast enough with my reply!

[dupti]

But they could feasibly catch someone one by focusing through the QT and if that player happens to not be active.....

I don't think it's going to be likely, but it could still occur especially if they can manage to do it quickly and then end the day. That's a potential two for one.

If the targeted player can't get that information out fast enough

Yeah I totally missed the fact that you could do it through the QT during the day.

[Largehorn]

I wish we had a post count.

I believe everyone at this point is above zero but below 125. As to specific points,

[dupti]

wasn't fast enough with my reply!

Oh god guess I shouldve refreshed as well

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hey can i get town points for not knowing about the qt thing??