How does Unholy look like for 7.2?

[Protean]

This is a fair point I suppose, but in practice I think what you are referring to as 'control' is a concept that comes through in gameplay due to synergy, namely taking advantage of it or failing to. I suppose something like doing a proper opener would fall into this category, and there you'd have a valid gripe when you get screwed on wounds.

But tbh, missing out on your opener being perfect now and then isn't that big a deal, and the people that act like the world is ending cause their opener got messed up are probably just bad and looking for an excuse for their low DPS (I've had ~90% parses where my opener was off).

In general though, I think a lack of feeling in control with any spec is a matter of synergy, mobility, and the contents of what the spec's skills do. For example, I think UH has a good amount of control for a PvE DPS spec due to the ability to AMS damage, heal, and dps at range. With proper setup, the spike/aoe thing on Tichondrius for example is like a 5% reduction in DPS as any decent player has 8 wounds up for it and goes into a Necrosis/DC dump while they 'hide'.

Lastly, anecdotally, I've raided quite a bit this expansion and i just don't see this RNG in my outright performance. My DPS on bosses is largely similar every pull, and when it's very high or low, it's identifiable as a result of my good or bad playing. I think the RNG of the spec is passive enough, and small enough in terms of its effect on DPS output that it's not a problem, as compared to something like roll the bones, which is high level and has a huge impact on DPS. With the incoming death coil change, I think Unholy is about to have one of the most satisfying rotations in the game, and I'm jusssst about to a place where I'd tell people that don't like the RNG of UH to just go play another spec. In terms of gameplay design, UH is a success - kudos to the dev team for finally putting the last piece into place (the DC change).

Opposite you, I can see my dps swing on Krosus by up to 200k. Every pull with even slightly bad RNG feels like shit and I end up hoping we don't get a kill so my logs don't get tainted.


Even worse on Tichondrius (or any cleave/AoE boss), I see swings between 1.4m and 700k dps from pull to pull, because there's also RNG on boss mechanics.

[Deleted]

Opposite you, I can see my dps swing on Krosus by up to 200k. Every pull with even slightly bad RNG feels like shit and I end up hoping we don't get a kill so my logs don't get tainted.

False

Zensuni is right. There is maybe a little more Rng in Uh than Frost but its balanced (not like outlaw Rogue for exemple).
And like Zensuni, my dps isnt swing at each pull.
sorry but i think your dps problem isnt from Rng-luck. You just miss something and dont admit it.

The Raid-fights in WoW are long enough to soften the impact of Rng (when we play at the last patch).

Now you can search why some people like you have "swing" on theyre dps and why other have not.
And the answer is not that Zensuni and me are lucky since the release of Legion

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My whole argument was that there are more sources of rng for unholy. more sources means less control imo. when there's less control some ppl tend to not like that and instead choose something else.

No

People prefer Frost just because Frost DSP > Uh Dps.
Its simple.

If what you said its true.
Why did people prefer to play Uh (Castigator) at the beginning of Legion while Uh had more Rng?

because Uh Dps was Higher than Frost.
Simple.

[garonne]

False

Zensuni is right. There is maybe a little more Rng in Uh than Frost but its balanced (not like outlaw Rogue for exemple).
And like Zensuni, my dps isnt swing at each pull.
sorry but i think your dps problem isnt from Rng-luck. You just miss something and dont admit it.

The Raid-fights in WoW are long enough to soften the impact of Rng (when we play at the last patch).

Now you can search why some people like you have "swing" on theyre dps and why other have not.
And the answer is not that Zensuni and me are lucky since the release of Legion

- - - Updated - - -



No

People prefer Frost just because Frost DSP > Uh Dps.
Its simple.

If what you said its true.
Why did people prefer to play Uh (Castigator) at the beginning of Legion while Uh had more Rng?

because Uh Dps was Higher than Frost.
Simple.

you're so gungho and pretentious that you dont even read the full post and only think your own experience is the right one.

ofcourse rng or no rng, ppl just gonna play whats higher dps. however if they're close, ppl are gonna play what they find either a. easier or b. more fun.


.

i already pointed out that more dps will yield more gameplay, so jump off your decrepit horse and stop being so ignorant.

[Protean]

False

Zensuni is right. There is maybe a little more Rng in Uh than Frost but its balanced (not like outlaw Rogue for exemple).
And like Zensuni, my dps isnt swing at each pull.
sorry but i think your dps problem isnt from Rng-luck. You just miss something and dont admit it.

The Raid-fights in WoW are long enough to soften the impact of Rng (when we play at the last patch).

Now you can search why some people like you have "swing" on theyre dps and why other have not.
And the answer is not that Zensuni and me are lucky since the release of Legion

- - - Updated - - -



No

People prefer Frost just because Frost DSP > Uh Dps.
Its simple.

If what you said its true.
Why did people prefer to play Uh (Castigator) at the beginning of Legion while Uh had more Rng?

because Uh Dps was Higher than Frost.
Simple.

I'm talking about the initial burst. As we all know we build our dps in the first minute of the fight and everything past that is trying to keep dps from dropping as much as possible and hope for a fast fight so we look good.

Maybe you don't raid enough as unholy to see the wild swings?

[Amalkatrazz]

Just tried Unholy, with kinda bad gear (no UH-specific legendary, just boots and neck) and low mastery (~77%) it is something like 7% or so behind my Frost spec on Mythic Anomaly. I have Draught and CoF, not sure however whether CoF is anything good for the spec. My Frost spec has four more artifact points and two good legendaries (bracers and helm). Probably it's just an RNG blessing though, but if it isn't, then UH is actually pretty decent since 7.2 came live.

[Deleted]

A guildy told me unholy is back to the bottom in logs?

I can't bare to go look

[Raiz]

A guildy told me unholy is back to the bottom in logs?

I can't bare to go look

Don't know, don't care. I'm pretty sure the majority of the forum posters here are doing more than your average joe in the "logs". At least they can easily make the 10% difference due to so many retarded players out there.

The fact that I'm still explaining strats on CoS, arcway and kara dungeons are proofs enough that this WoW community is more casual than you'd like to think. Just combine unholy and its 3 ressources to manage and you have a big discrepancy between the bad and good players, which makes the logs looks skewed.

I just refuse to believe there are "too much" RNG in this spec. More like they don't want to admit they're not playing their spec correctly (myself included and god knows how much I've played this spec since Wotlk).

Edit : And I've said it plenty of time already, the longer the fights are, the less important the RNG swings are. If you consider that most of the NH fights are like 10 minutes long, I refuse to aknowledge there are more than 10% difference in DPS between each kill.

[garonne]

Don't know, don't care. I'm pretty sure the majority of the forum posters here are doing more than your average joe in the "logs". At least they can easily make the 10% difference due to so many retarded players out there.

The fact that I'm still explaining strats on CoS, arcway and kara dungeons are proofs enough that this WoW community is more casual than you'd like to think. Just combine unholy and its 3 ressources to manage and you have a big discrepancy between the bad and good players, which makes the logs looks skewed.

I just refuse to believe there are "too much" RNG in this spec. More like they don't want to admit they're not playing their spec correctly (myself included and god knows how much I've played this spec since Wotlk).

Edit : And I've said it plenty of time already, the longer the fights are, the less important the RNG swings are. If you consider that most of the NH fights are like 10 minutes long, I refuse to aknowledge there are more than 10% difference in DPS between each kill.

there is no set amount of RNG that everyone will be ok with, so the factor of saying there is too much is determined by each individual person. some like more rng, some like less, however, what you can't deny is the AMOUNT of rng the spec has. i'm not a fan of rng, however A Lot of rng that have little impact doesn't bother me. while 1 rng that has wide swings will irritate me to no end.

in the current patch, frost is king, its just better at every single fight in Nighthold than unholy. going forward, i THINK unholy will have its place (especially in single target, spread aoe or heavy movement). i personally enjoyed frost BOS playstyle and glad its back bc i disliked MG frost (i like big CDs) but im all for unholy coming back, especially with the current tier 20 set for unholy that brings army's cd to ~3:30

[Deleted]

UH dps is not RNG at all, it´s the spec with the lowest DPS swings in game (check warcraftlogs).
The playstyle might be RNG, but the actual dmg output is not RNG at all over the duration of a normal raid fight.

The reason is quite obvious, we have so many sources of steady dmg, there is no room for much differences in dps.
Literally more than 50% of our dmg is shoot and forget.

[BadguyNotBadGuy]

Prolly not the best place to post this, but whats the current go to build for UH?

Clawing Shadows, Necrosis, SR?

And whats the mastery %age i should be aiming for?

[Voldro]

As much mastery as you can . In a perfect world you will get like 20% crit , 20% haste and around 85-95% mastery. I wouldn't go with crit and haste too much under 20%.

[BadguyNotBadGuy]

As much mastery as you can . In a perfect world you will get like 20% crit , 20% haste and around 85-95% mastery. I wouldn't go with crit and haste too much under 20%.

do i just avoid vers completely?

[Voldro]

Well if you go for example under 20% haste , you will start having annoying downtime , for me , it is a big no no because can cause SR not to get 3 stacks due to poor rune regeneration , or waiting too long to have 3-4 runes free so i can use SR. If you take down too much crit , and Castigator spec makes a comeback , you will be in a lot of trouble. Crit is also good for CW spec. So it is better to be prepared . Versatility helps us the least if you put all things in the balance.

[Deleted]

Well if you go for example under 20% haste , you will start having annoying downtime , for me , it is a big no no because can cause SR not to get 3 stacks due to poor rune regeneration , or waiting too long to have 3-4 runes free so i can use SR. If you take down too much crit , and Castigator spec makes a comeback , you will be in a lot of trouble. Crit is also good for CW spec. So it is better to be prepared . Versatility helps us the least if you put all things in the balance.

Personally, I wouldn't wait for 3-4 runes to regen when casting SR, 2 is enough with the others coming back on use in 2 GCDs. You're right though, having to wait for runes is a pain with Unholy and the SR build.

[BadguyNotBadGuy]

Atm im using an 890 Broken Egg Shell and an 890 Draught of Souls. However i also have an 890 Elemental Foci and an 875 Horn of Valor. Should i keep using the same trinkets or change?

[Voldro]

Using SR with two runes , leaves you with only 1 rune to burst the wounds. With around 20% it will really be on the edge with getting the 3 stacks of SR. This punishes us a lot. As for trinkets , passive strength one are better imo , especially if you have some relics for Darkest Crusade. BUT , DoS is really good in burst phase when our army of dead debuffs the boss for 15% increased damage from the dk .

[Saybel]

You also forgot: BoS is a simple rotation to play over UH.

I really don't notice a difference in difficulty, especially without castigator. What is this myth that one spec is way simpler then the other? They are both simple.

[Voldro]

Frost - The thing that makes it simpler to play is the fact that ST and AOE rotation do not differ that much and you have less resources. When Icy Talons ,Frozen Pulse and RA was the way to go , the spec was better because you had runes and runic power to spend. But with BoS , runic power spends automatically once you get it rolling , so you manage both in the same time. The only frost dot usually deals around 5% of you damage , so if you loose a few tick it does not hurt that much.

Unholy - you have 3 resources and Virulent Plague which is our best dd spell and really hurts when it is not on target , plus a pet . So there are much more things to take care of as UH.