[HOLY] - Light of the Martyr

[SnorlaxJeng]

Get a grip dude... U show a picture of skada for a fight that could be easily healed with any gear setup and any talents. The only thing that your leech accomplishes for you is healing damage u are doing to yourself, that's like standing in fire and beaconing yourself to get higher HPS.

You assume that I stood in the fire. You assume that I padded meters. What I'm trying to express is the amount of minimal overhealing, mana efficiency and negating the drawbacks of LoTM via Leech and Damage taken reduction. If it is what you see and only wish to see then there is nothing much to discuss about. Leech is meant to be a unique self only Beacon which opens up your possibilities.

[Clarius]

I didnt say u stood in fire, I said that that stacking leech and spamming LotM is like beaconing yourself and standing in fire. Sure, youre gonna be doing alot of HPS, but you didnt have to take all that damage to begin with.

I also think that you are probably sacrificing alot of other stats to get that much leech, unless youve been really lucky.

[SnorlaxJeng]

You don't really sacrifice anything to get leech. Can you consider it damage when it instantly heals back? Also prone to be auto healed via doing any other activity? You cannot really debate the point saying you'd accept 50% effective heal of LoTM but invalidating the amounts healed from Leech.

Call me lucky perhaps. But I play all 3 specs, even for my tank spec I have 15% leech. You don't have to be all too choosy about stats either when you get a gear with leech. Leech is a given, but as far as stat priority it is Int > Crit = Mastery = Versatility > Haste.

Maintaining 600k+ HPS without draining your mana minutes into the fight. In a way you also have to think in a point where heals done on you by others have been redirected more efficienctly.

[Crysth]

You don't really sacrifice anything to get leech. Can you consider it damage when it instantly heals back? Also prone to be auto healed via doing any other activity? You cannot really debate the point saying you'd accept 50% effective heal of LoTM but invalidating the amounts healed from Leech.

Call me lucky perhaps. But I play all 3 specs, even for my tank spec I have 15% leech. You don't have to be all too choosy about stats either when you get a gear with leech. Leech is a given, but as far as stat priority it is Int > Crit = Mastery = Versatility > Haste.

Maintaining 600k+ HPS without draining your mana minutes into the fight. In a way you also have to think in a point where heals done on you by others have been redirected more efficienctly.

I think he's moreso referring the chances you skipping over upgrades to gear in favor of keeping the leech. Like going "oh man, i could use these boots that are a 10ilvl upgrade, same stats.... but no leech... Gotta keep that leech".

[SnorlaxJeng]

I think he's moreso referring the chances you skipping over upgrades to gear in favor of keeping the leech. Like going "oh man, i could use these boots that are a 10ilvl upgrade, same stats.... but no leech... Gotta keep that leech".

I won't deny that doesn't happen but in reality it is up to the wielder to judge what is an upgrade and what isn't. Now I'm not saying you should put my benchmark and apply that too, but I do find that having leech itself on the gear is about a 30 ilvl increase. Not heal power per se, but HPM efficiency. If it is bigger and harder heals you need you ought to swap out gears to meet the scenario at hand.

For example a 889 ilvl Leech gear would have better efficiency compared to say a 905 non leech gear but naturally it wouldn't heal that much, consequently as it heals harder with no leech LoTM usage must be adjust to suit the recoil. For my case would you bring said 889 leech gear to heal something like Tyrannical M+19 Meliandrus, or 905 no leech? There is, however, always a middle group between the two extremes. Just like how DPS switch trinkets and spec for their expected AoE to ST ratio. So must you apply that in the same manner.

For said Tyrannical M+19 i went for the middle group of around 895 keeping only high ilvl leech gear.

[Deleted]

I won't deny that doesn't happen but in reality it is up to the wielder to judge what is an upgrade and what isn't. Now I'm not saying you should put my benchmark and apply that too, but I do find that having leech itself on the gear is about a 30 ilvl increase. Not heal power per se, but HPM efficiency. If it is bigger and harder heals you need you ought to swap out gears to meet the scenario at hand.

For example a 889 ilvl Leech gear would have better efficiency compared to say a 905 non leech gear but naturally it wouldn't heal that much, consequently as it heals harder with no leech LoTM usage must be adjust to suit the recoil. For my case would you bring said 889 leech gear to heal something like Tyrannical M+19 Meliandrus, or 905 no leech? There is, however, always a middle group between the two extremes. Just like how DPS switch trinkets and spec for their expected AoE to ST ratio. So must you apply that in the same manner.

For said Tyrannical M+19 i went for the middle group of around 895 keeping only high ilvl leech gear.

I think you are valuing leech way too high.

The only scenario where you wouldn't need bigger and harder heals is if you are doing content that is below your cap, and maybe some wierd fringe cases. Bigger and harder heals automatically give more sustain whereas leech only gives personal suvivability. Even in terms of personal suvivability, the stamina gain from having 16(!) increased overall iLvL is huge and will overshadow personal healing easily, especially on a fight like Melandrus where you eventually get oneshot by a soft-enrage.

I dont think you are ever justified to sacrifice more than 5-10 ilvl's for leech and even that is pushing it. Some personal healing, or even a lot, is just in no way as beneficial to a raid as compared to an increased direct healing output. Leech is nice to have, but in the end its just a self heal.

Your M19+ example is kind of trivial seeing as that would be easily healed with iLvL 905 equipped and a group of decent party-members.

[Mastamage]

People who say its useless based on logs should really learn not to follow logs 100% during progress fights. Keeping people alive during clutch times is way more important then the overall healing loss it gives.

What's useless is this jerkoff coming in here and spewing his leech build when it has nothing to do with the OP. The OP is obviously newer to HPal. They won't have the leech gear or perfect gear setup. What's also useless is that he gets offended that we shoot him down while we're using sound logic. I've honestly tried to spam LotM outside of IoL procs and HS cd and it doesn't ever do shit for me compared to FoL and HS.

[Crysth]

What's useless is this jerkoff coming in here and spewing his leech build when it has nothing to do with the OP. The OP is obviously newer to HPal. They won't have the leech gear or perfect gear setup. What's also useless is that he gets offended that we shoot him down while we're using sound logic. I've honestly tried to spam LotM outside of IoL procs and HS cd and it doesn't ever do shit for me compared to FoL and HS.

Funnily, I quickly added up their leech build recommendations... Granted, I don't have exact values/ranges based off ilvl, but I have a rough estimate based off tertiaries on my current gear on two characters. At ilvl 890, it would take like 8+ pieces of gear to reach the 20% leech they recommend, and about 13 pieces to reach the 30% someone mentioned having in this or another post. It is super unrealistic that someone (basically anyone) has gotten that many different, good pieces with that tertiary. And by "good", I'm again meaning decently high ilvl (890+).

[Kluian05]

I use LoTM for burst healing, movement healing, and just an efficient mana cost heal (outside of not healing Beacon).

[SnorlaxJeng]

Funnily, I quickly added up their leech build recommendations... Granted, I don't have exact values/ranges based off ilvl, but I have a rough estimate based off tertiaries on my current gear on two characters. At ilvl 890, it would take like 8+ pieces of gear to reach the 20% leech they recommend, and about 13 pieces to reach the 30% someone mentioned having in this or another post. It is super unrealistic that someone (basically anyone) has gotten that many different, good pieces with that tertiary. And by "good", I'm again meaning decently high ilvl (890+).

Just takes loads of patience to get there. If you do indeed have 12 slots (-2 for legendaries) with leech at 890. You would certainly be at least 25-26%, Stoicism and some versatility and you're taking neutral damage. I'm sitting in all except legs without leech, and 2 legendaries.

[Timadin]

What's useless is this jerkoff coming in here and spewing his leech build when it has nothing to do with the OP. The OP is obviously newer to HPal. They won't have the leech gear or perfect gear setup. What's also useless is that he gets offended that we shoot him down while we're using sound logic. I've honestly tried to spam LotM outside of IoL procs and HS cd and it doesn't ever do shit for me compared to FoL and HS.

I agree 100%.

[Sandraudiga]

Light of the Martyr is usually 80% of my healing, but then again I only heal LFR and just right click frames. Quick queue is nice and mindless clicking is enough given my gears ability to carry me.

[Deleted]

In general its a great emergency heal but is less efficient than LoD and Holy Shock, also the fact that it doesn't feed Beacon unless you are running the cape (Which isn't meta atm) makes it overall weak unless its an emergency. You usually expect to see Beacon, Shock and LoD in your top 3.

[rubenmsalles]

Remove that spell from your bars and you will improve as a holy paladin, same with holy light
trust me
I still can't believe that they didn't remove it or reworked it for BfA