PLEASE Don't Have KJ Turn on the Sargeras/the Legion

[derpkitteh]

he might turn on sargeras, but he's not going to join us.

from what i inferred here, he felt a twinge of old feelings as he watched velen call him a monster. that's understandable, this is the guy he loved dearly for thousands of years prior. but then he buried it with rage, and when sargeras questioned his loyalty after all that he's done for him, he resolved to take the legion and achieve the vision he was given himself, without another failure plan by sargeras.

so he's still burning legion, he's just not exactly under sargeras' thumb anymore.

[Sylv_]

I love how you people to turn forums sections into Twitch chat with LUL, Pogchamp etc.

Except LUL has been around much longer than twitch.

[Rend Blackhand]

He won't. KJ is Burning Legion through and through.

He's just having a few problems with upper management is all, we've all been there.

[Soeroah]

He might break rank and take matters into his own hands, but I doubt he'd betray the Legion and join us.

Illidan saw a vision of the Legion early on in his life and almost had a crisis over how they could be beaten. Imagine what Kil'jaeden knows about the breadth and scope of the Legion. I imagine he thinks betraying the Legion, even if he wanted to, would be pointless suicide.

[Taeldorian]

I think he just wants the legion for himself and doesn't want to deal with Sargeras anymore since he perceives all the failures of the legion to be Sargeras' fault.

So he definitely won't join us, id bet loads of money on that. Especially with Velen wanting revenge for his people, his son, etc it wouldn't work no matter how you spin it.

However I could see him being disobedient towards Sargeras and doing his own thing to achieve his goal which seems to be what is happening with 7.2.

[KrazyK923]

I love how people attacked me when I stated many months ago that I think KJ has his own agenda and will turn on Sargy, yet now the same people come up with the theory and think they're right, LUL.

Did you state this before his boss fight in BC? Because his quotes during that where what started the entire theory 11 years ago.

[Deleted]

Kil'jaeden is the epithome of the Burning Legion, he would never betray his master. The problem is that Sargeras seems to have other plans.

[Deleted]

it would be idiotic for him to change sides, after all Sargeras is right. but knowing that horde easily turned against Garrosh for no good reason, everything is possible. power of plotjutsu in W universe rivals that of Naruto. Blizzard-kun have potential to be the next hokage

[Deleted]

And also, unless I'm looking too much into it, you can tell during the scene of Kil'jaeden watching the dudes @ Krasus Landing speak that when Velen begins talking about the true masters of the Legion revealing themselves, and speaks about Kil'jaeden (calling him a monster, etc)... the look of utter sadness on KJ's face followed by anger. He looks almost... hurt still.

I thought it was more "How dare you", as KJ believes what he did was for the good of his people (Velen and crew being exiles).

A much, much, much, much, much, more interesting twist would be Velen going evil.

He might break rank and take matters into his own hands, but I doubt he'd betray the Legion and join us.

I got the opinion of when he says "enough" and stops the conversation with Sargeras and teleports the fleet to Azeroth he is doing what he wants and just invading cause fuck it?

[TheFirstOnes]

Except his death is in a cinematic like Gul'dan's. So no, we don't know what happens after his hp reaches 0%.

Actually, The LK didn't have a Death line either...

Litterally, before he died, he said this "Here I stand, The Lion Before the Lambs, And they will not fear, they cannot fear"

However, in a cinematic, it showed his death....


However, with Kil'jaeden, it ends with his showing his Infinite Army. I think he'll try to Over power us with his army, only to die by Either Velen, or Illidan...

[TickTickTick]

On Argus we will discover we didnt kill KJ for good and he is trapped there by Sargeras. When we defeat Sargeras KJ will come out and yell ARGUS IS FREE!!! And the draenei and eredar alike will cheer for him.
In next expansion there will be a race hubs similar to order halls, in which we will build a castle and KJ will be our first green quality follower and we will be able to send him either to kill a pack of wolves nearby or eavesdrop the murloc meeting.

[TheFirstOnes]

Kil'jaeden is the epithome of the Burning Legion, he would never betray his master. The problem is that Sargeras seems to have other plans.

They're apart of the same team...However....

Kil'jaeden's pulling a Megatron/Galvatron, While Sargeras is pulling a Unicron...

[Hawthorne Wipes]

From what can I grasp from the conversation with Sarg, KJ is just unsatisfies because after thousends of years of work and sacrifice, the glory Sargeras promised to him doesn't seem to be coming soon.
For KJ to doubt about his master makes him a more interesting villain.
Its also not that weird for him to talk that way to Sargeras, after all, he and Archimond are the seconds in command of the Legion, and with Sarg lost in space, they are basically the ones in charge of the operations.
Sargeras would be fucked up without his most powerful champions.
That said, KJ will never be good.
He can surely try to betray Sargeras and take the Legion to fulfill his own desires, but hardly in order to help us.

[Otrew]

assuming archimonde is not death, i think in the end the 3 old buddies gonna sacrifice them selves to power down sargeras, so we can kill him

[DaHomieG]

I'm actually all for a cheesy redemption story lol. Apologizing to Illidan and Velen and all that.

Or, a Bolvar type thing. In Chronicle Vol 1 it puts fel in a position where it has to be there to have balance so after destroying Sargeras, Kil'jaeden will command the now benevolent demons and we get demonic races to play.

[MechaCThun]

Kil'jaeden is the epithome of the Burning Legion, he would never betray his master. The problem is that Sargeras seems to have other plans.

I agree with him being the epitome of the Legion at the moment. Does KJ even know about the threat of the Void Lords?

Before WC Chronicle Volume 1, what we knew about the Burning Legion was it's goal in eradicating all life throughout the universe, whether it be utterly destroying it or bringing it into their fold.

Now with Volume 1, we know Sargeras' goal was to eradicate all life throughout the universe to prevent the Void Lords from dominating it... while also destroying these world-souls from preventing them from becoming Dark Titans.

Sargeras' thought process: a universe desolate of life is far better off than a universe under the control of the Void Lords.

Sargeras tried to convince the other titans that what he had done was right, and that the universe needed to be purged of life - which, in his mind, could have been already corrupted by the void lords - in order to prevent the risk of a world-soul becoming corrupted and opening the way for the void lords (in his mind, even a lifeless universe was better than one dominated by the Void, for he argued that if life had once taken root in the Great Dark on its own, perhaps it would do so again).

So when Sargeras says to KJ in the 7.2. cinematic "our crusade will prevail" (or however he says it) I wonder if KJ is still more-or-less in the dark of Sargeras' REAL plan.

Which could push KJ "over the edge" and finally betray Sargeras -not to go on our side- but splinter off from the Legion?

[Qualia]

So when Sargeras says to KJ in the 7.2. cinematic "our crusade will prevail" (or however he says it) I wonder if KJ is still more-or-less in the dark of Sargeras' REAL plan.

Which could push KJ "over the edge" and finally betray Sargeras -not to go on our side- but splinter off from the Legion?

Why would it push KJ over the edge? Sargeras' plan and the Legion's aim is the same - to destroy everything in the universe or take them into the Legion. The Void Lords and their corruptions are just the reasons why Sargeras came up with that plan, not part of the plan itself. Seeing that Kil'Jaeden's wish is to destroy all creations, what's the difference between that and Sargeras' "real plan"?

[Zyky]

Kind of looking back at Blizzard's formula for how they have built up villains. A theme that occurs often is when a big bad guy is designated in the beginning, and as the story progresses we see he/she/it is struggling with some inner turmoil in regards to loyalties or moral, and then at the climax he/she/it ends up turning good OR doing that one sacrificial good deed to help the protagonists.

The 7.2. trailer certainly implied frustration Kil'jaeden has with Sargeras due to (in his mind) the consistent failures of the Burning Legion. Frustrated enough to make it to the level of almost BLAMING Sargeras.

And also, unless I'm looking too much into it, you can tell during the scene of Kil'jaeden watching the dudes @ Krasus Landing speak that when Velen begins talking about the true masters of the Legion revealing themselves, and speaks about Kil'jaeden (calling him a monster, etc)... the look of utter sadness on KJ's face followed by anger. He looks almost... hurt still.

Perhaps this is more of a rant, or a maybe a plea, but please do NOT have KJ ending up turning on Sargeras to the benefit of us.

Mannoroth and Archimonde were evil and against us to the end.

KJ is supposed to be infinitely more evil and devious than they.

I mean they hinted at Gul'dan wanting to turn good very very briefly in the audio drama, but didn't follow though. Though I'd really like to hear some examples of someone turning good or doing a sacrificial good deed. Please give a few good examples because I can't think of a single time. And no Illidan doesn't count, when they share his story we're actually the bad guys for defeating him.

- - - Updated - - -

Why would it push KJ over the edge? Sargeras' plan and the Legion's aim is the same - to destroy everything in the universe or take them into the Legion. The Void Lords and their corruptions are just the reasons why Sargeras came up with that plan, not part of the plan itself. Seeing that Kil'Jaeden's wish is to destroy all creations, what's the difference between that and Sargeras' "real plan"?

Kil'Jaeden's only wish is for more power, he doesn't care about destroying all creation. The only thing outside of power that he cares for is killing Velen, and only specifically Velen and his faction of Draenei because when he refused the "gift" Kil'Jaeden saw it as a betrayal from his best friend.

[Qualia]

Kil'Jaeden's only wish is for more power, he doesn't care about destroying all creation. The only thing outside of power that he cares for is killing Velen, and only specifically Velen and his faction of Draenei because when he refused the "gift" Kil'Jaeden saw it as a betrayal from his best friend.

To quote in-game text: Kil'Jaeden's Burning Wish: "Kil'jaeden the Deceiver, supreme commander of the Burning Legion, has a simple agenda: consume all life and magic, assimilate every race into the Legion's ranks, slay any who dare resist, and destroy all of creation". Kil'Jaeden has a special spot for Velen in his hit list, but he does care about destroying all creations very much as well.

[MechaCThun]

Why would it push KJ over the edge? Sargeras' plan and the Legion's aim is the same - to destroy everything in the universe or take them into the Legion. The Void Lords and their corruptions are just the reasons why Sargeras came up with that plan, not part of the plan itself. Seeing that Kil'Jaeden's wish is to destroy all creations, what's the difference between that and Sargeras' "real plan"?

This is easy to answer. For argument's sake, let's state that KJ does not know about the threat of the Void Lords and the original purpose of the Burning Legion.

Sargeras and his goal on "eradicating all life and world-souls to prevent them from being taken over by the Void Lords" is largely "destroy everything" mentality. In KJ's mind, this goal is simplified to "eradicating all life" with perhaps his personal vendettas in mind too, like Velen and the draenei.

Essentially, if KJ doesn't have the true "bigger picture" in mind (simply because he is un-aware) then that leaves open possibilities of Sargeras denying him chances to do what HE thinks needs to be done.

Kind of like being in middle management in any job. If upper management only tells you need-to-know information but still leaves you with managing, then you will do what needs to be done in order to succeed. But if you end up deviating from a particular plan of action, or your plans of action threaten the "bigger picture" of course upper management steps in. It becomes frustrating.

In KJ's mind, the endless attempts on Azeroth have been a failure? Perhaps he is like "Enough Sargeras. Clearly Azeroth is more fortified than we thought. Let's go to another galaxy and destroy other planets and build up the army stronger THEN return to Azeroth" not knowing the world-soul threat is present.

EDIT: Going to attempt to re-iterate the point I was going to get across. Could it stand to reason that if all KJ knows is to "destroy all of creation" and feels like there is a better way to go about it but Sargeras dictates the way he wants it done due to the threat of the Void Lords -- a threat that KJ probably does not know about -- then there is a chance of KJ going rogue and attempting to do it himself?