What do we need for 7.2.5?

[Deleted]

So with blizzards quote I think we should agree that Warlocks need work since we missed the opportunity during the last patch cycle.

7.2.5 will have more class changes than 7.2 (which was the plan from the beginning), and this forum will likely have more to talk about, for both devs and players, once that PTR is underway. For the specs that do get significant changes, making sure our intent and goals are clear during the PTR is important to us, since it gets us the best feedback. As you've seen from the Rogue post, some specs have had tentative plans being formed even before 7.2 shipped, so they'd be ready for player testing with the maximum amount of time on 7.2.5 PTR.

Outside of afflictions artifact weapon and destructions lack of ST damage potential and Demonology Empower spam. What do you feel we need to improve damage/gameplay/mechanic wise?

Note: Let's keep this constructive.

[Deleted]

Destruction needs a serious rework. It is way too rng-dependant, and this should be fixed.
Starting by mastery: I'm not completely against it, a Rng-Chaos Mastery feels ok but it should be balanced in a different way: I think it shouldn't be a buff ranging from 1% to 100%, but something like 40% to 60%.
Overall damage would be roughly the same, but you wouldn't feel that bad: seeing a chaos bolt hitting 1 million, and then the next one hitting for 250 k makes me feel as if I'm almost wasting 2 shards. Whereas, seeing two chaos bolt hitting 450k and 700k would feel much better.
I'd really like to see embers back, but i think we ll have to wait for the next espansion.

Affliction should feel much better when multidotting. I find it Challenging and fun to keep dot up on 3 4 targets, but i guess we should deal a bit more damage and should have ramp on agony a bit faster. 20 stacks really take too much to ramp.
Dots damage should be a bit different. Seeing uas doing 55 % of my damage feels as if ds, agony, sl and corruption are shit.
Haunt. Why the hell is haunt this way? It is useless. Buff it or remove it and put something which can compete with WiA and MG.

Not talking much about demo, since i don t seriously play that spec since 7.1.5, but seeing logs i find it is not enough strong in st tunneling, compared to affliction.

Talking about all specs, removing life tap would make a lot of sense. I don't understand why this class would need that useless spell, it belongs to tbc and wotlk times, and it should be removed, just as happened for mages, ret paladin, balance druids, who now belongs to mana only for their utility spell. They should simply remove mana cost from all damaging spells, leaving it for fear, healthstone, soulstone, circle, gate, banish and enslave demons.
Then, after removing life tap, mana tap is another shit, it's a maintenance buff which makes no sense, just remove that, and put instead of it another talent. Destruction could have a talent which allows RoF to deal it's damage faster, or maybe even causing it to DoT targets hit, instead of having them needed to stay under the rain effect (tanks have got enough positioning issues already, they shouldn't think to kerp mobs under your rain too).

My last consideration resolves around pets. I agree we should have a demon pet, but not those pet.
Affliction should use his felhunter, not being forced to use GoSup because it sims much higher.
Destruction should use Sacrifice in my opinion, cause a sacrifice of your demon to have more power for yourself feels way more chaotic than an Imp.
And then, why should all 3 specs be able to summon doomguard and infernal? It makes no sense. Affly and destruction have the same summoning power of a Master demon summoner? I mean, WTF
Give Affly something like Soul Harvest baseline, (maybe tuned better, ofc), leave infernal to destruction (cause infernal flames are chaotic), maybe just give them a 10 min cd for lord of flames, without the 3 min cd, and something different as with 2 min cd. Give doomguard to demo only, maybe having the darkglare instead of infernal as a 3min cd.

[Saiona]

I mean does 4pc t20 kinda fix destros rng problem?

[Inshabel]

I mean does 4pc t20 kinda fix destros rng problem?

I guess it does, and Blizzard has gone on record saying they like to test class changes with set bonuses, so we'll see.

[Vondem]

Starting by mastery: I'm not completely against it, a Rng-Chaos Mastery feels ok but it should be balanced in a different way: I think it shouldn't be a buff ranging from 1% to 100%, but something like 40% to 60%. Overall damage would be roughly the same

Right there you're contradicting yourself. It has been explained repeatedly... regardless if the number is a range or how it is now, it will end up doing about the same. However, if the floor of the mastery stayed, let's say 20%, lower than your maximum mastery (mine right now is ~71%), so a range of 51-71%, CB would hit consistently harder and warrant a nerf to baseline damage.

The way it is now, especially with new t20 set bonuses, mastery will be VERY strong. This debate has been exhausted over the last 8 months.

[Deleted]

Right there you're contradicting yourself. It has been explained repeatedly... regardless if the number is a range or how it is now, it will end up doing about the same. However, if the floor of the mastery stayed, let's say 20%, lower than your maximum mastery (mine right now is ~71%), so a range of 51-71%, CB would hit consistently harder and warrant a nerf to baseline damage.

The way it is now, especially with new t20 set bonuses, mastery will be VERY strong. This debate has been exhausted over the last 8 months.

I'm not contradicting myself. I'm not talking about overall damage. What i mean was that even if the overall damage was the same, seeing that all your chaosbolt hit for roughly the same amount (with a small difference, for example 400k and 600k) would feel much better than seeing it hit twice, doing a ton of damage and then almost no damage compared to the first one (100k and 1 kk). Even if the overall damage is Exactly the same.

[Deleted]

First thing @Thath needs is an Enter-key on his keyboard. Horrible wall of text...

What I hope we get in 7.2.5:
- A well thought-through revamp of the soul shard system for Destruction that makes it very close to the Ember system we had in WoD
- A viable option to play petless - OR: A fix of pet pathing, pet pulling, and general pet stupidity
- A less convoluted playstyle for Destruction: Life-tap & especially ILT gone, Soul Harvest independent of immolates, a fix for the CDF bug with immolate not being recognized
- Option to miniaturize pets when playing GoSup
- Fel rush to be baseline. It's "expensive" enough with its hp cost, doesn't need to occupy a talent slot in addition.
- Demo to have a better in-game tracking of demons out without the need for WAs/addons

What I think WILL happen:
- Destruction getting a half-cocked ember system that is basically just a "cut soulshards into 10th, rest stays similar to what it is"
- Pets will stay as clunky as always, and we're still forced into them, especially the big ones that are always "in the way"
- Life Tap and ILT will stay and will be as unnecessary as always, CDF issue will not be fixed
- Fel Rush will stay where it is

[Deleted]

First thing @Thath needs is an Enter-key on his keyboard. Horrible wall of text...

Yeah, sorry, but i'm not very comfortable about this when i'm writing on mobile
Tryed to space it as more as I could, but while seeing it on phone it looked better than it actually was

[Baconeggcheese]

Been writing books on the PTR, here's a couple if you find yourself wanting to read some walls.

Destro:
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...3097288?page=1

Aff:
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...3277495?page=1

The destro one has a TLDR, the aff ones basically me saying that demo / aff are continuously being pushed to overlap by turning both specs into pure ST dot specs.

If I had to overly summarize my issues with destro, they aren't so much that it lacks ST, but that it lacks the heavy burst priority target damage that defined the spec for the last 2 xpacs, and that its aoe kit is disjointed / incoherent. Destro is neither strong at burst nor strong at sustain, its just somewhere in-between and doesn't really shine anywhere vs other classes.

For aff, its that its completely lost its identity of being thee multi-dot spec and instead turned into a ST turret.

For demo its that the way they went about the whole "master summoner" fantasy was to effectively turn it into a ST dot spec which is going to forever have it and aff competing for that space. There are many examples in other games of how to do a summoner without necessarily turning it into a pure dot spec.

A problem both aff and demo have is that they're both pretty much pure dot specs with no priority damage / target swap. The only way you get away with that is if the spec is overtuned in situations where they can do damage, otherwise there's no reason to have them in your raid vs other classes that can do similar damage in sustained situations + priority damage / target swap.

[Gaidax]

I am pretty happy with Destruction overall really.

I'd say only things I want is viable petless option, we have been sacking demon for years and somehow game did not implode on itself, I would like to have it back including Sac bonus ability we had.

Other than that it is a tuning matter of ST needing a small bump.

Everything else can live with. One more thing - in regards to the whole Embers hype, I hope their will not reintroduce Incinerate being a main Ember generator, despite this being a request one often hears, it will be a major pain in the ass mobility-wise.


In regards to Demo, I think it needs less trash and more substance, I would really prefer them to replace imps with something more substantial and satisfying. Demonic Empowerment is also pretty badly received and for a good reason, at very least it should see the change potentially making it an actual DPS CD instead of maintenance buff.

[Buckles44]

Sure destro ST dmg is not the best. But unless you spec I to it our aoe dmg is crap too. For multiple enemies all you have is rain of fire.

What they should do is give destro lock back Fire and Brimstone and make it aoe immolate and incinerate. And give us the talent of choosing to do Chaos bolt as well. The reason it worked so well before was because our ember regeneration wasn't as bad as it is now

[Deleted]

One of the best ways to improve Demonology warlocks is to reduce the soul shard regeneration and spending. Right now the rotations seems a bit clusterfucked with not much planing ahead compared to what they were in MoP and WoD.
I'd love a rotation as Destro where I can reliable plan to save a good set of soul shards in conjuction with a damage increasing cooldown or proc and feel like it's relevant to my dps output.
Affliction I recon could use something similar. The current MG rotation is just brainless and boring (imo).
Demo has in the past been a lot about managing recources and planing far ahead into your rotation. Tbh, it should go back to Demonic fury. But instead of Meta it could have a different form or just spend them normally.

[Deleted]

I mean does 4pc t20 kinda fix destros rng problem?

Changing a specs entire secondary stat prio is hardly called a fix in my opinion. And losing t19 bonuses will raise a lot more serious problems then people disliking mastery. When NH opened, we lost RE and 1 cast less with Backdraft. Destro gameplay will be awful from the looks of it.

[Joryy]

We're not in a horrible place right now. All of the specs are playable. I miss the long-term planning element that the class had with larger resources pools and multiple dark soul charges. I would much rather have had the 0-1000 energy have been the resource model we were standardized too. Purple combo points are lame.

What probably needs to change:
Aff and demo have too similar of toolboxes
Destro might be a little too cleavey-niche. The preformance gap from Elisande to Krosus is :/
We might need some new class fantasy, with DH's eating a chunk of it. There's gotta be some forbidden magics to delve into that have nothing to do with demons.

What I am hoping for:
GOODBYE DOOMGUARD, BRING BACK DARK SOUL
An actual kick
Sacrifice to be playable, and/or pets to be a talent for Aff/destro.
An alternative spender talent for UA and Chaos bolt. Those are cool spells and all, but variety is life.

What I expect to get changed:
Aff - Soul on mob death reduced from 100% chance (or Deadwind harvester reworked)
Aff - Effigy starts to move a little, and maybe adds itself to boss frames.
Demo - Demonic Empowerment becomes a 1min-ish cooldown.
Demo - Major rework in 8.0 to separate it from affliction, mechanically.
Destro - 'soul shard bits' that are still not as flavorful as embers.

[Count Zero]

I hope they finally make Aff on-death traits accrue/proc at a minimum when things aren't dying and a maximum rate when they are. I've said this probably a few dozen times, dating to before launch (I don't remember how far back into beta I was on it). Makes balancing it orders of magnitude easier.

[BannedForViews]

I want to see significantly less RNG. That's really the biggest problem. Souls seems to be taking a step in the right direction. Shards and Fatal echoes needs a bit ore standardized. Destro could use it with mastery, bringing the top and bottom closer to the middle. Demo seem to not really have rng that i know of, which is nice.

[Deleted]

The utter destruction and undoing of every single change they've made in this expansion. And in Warlords.

[Moggie]

Dear god, update warlocks spell graphics

[Scroff]

I'd like soul swap back for aff, certainly with a cooldown and perhaps costing shards depending on the number of UAs being swapped

[Deleted]

i'm very skeptical that we will see any big blue post like the rogue one's. I wonder how i became so skeptical ....