What do we need for 7.2.5?

[Fennixx]

Keeping realistic changes here for a minor balancepatch

Aff
Way to generate souls on demand (maybe a CD for 2-6ish souls).

Demo
Hand of doom baseline
Talent to cast Call Dreadstalker instantly
Maybe a power bump on TKC dmg against non players

Destro
More reliable way to generate shards
Focused chaos-like talent on last tier

[Ilir]

Remove life tap.

[Deleted]

Affliction: Buff our multidotting. It feels wrong to play a dot spec that excels only at ST. More visuals please. Malefic Grasp/WoD Drainsoul animation instead of the ugly Drain Soul animation from what Wrath? Bring back the soul swirl effect from Soulburn: Haunt and make our dots more than purple clouds around our targets. Floating soulshards.

Destro: Buff our singletarget damage. It feels wrong to be just the cleave guy and nothing else. Buff and change our aoe, it's clunky and terrible, Catacylsm baseline and reduced cooldown. Visuals. Fiery aura around our character like we used to. Update green fire spell casting animations. Verdant spheres.

Demo: Demonic Empowerment should be a cooldown like it originally used to be. Make our aoe and cleave better and buff our ST. Demo is the only spec with decent animations and visuals.

[Ilir]

Guys... it's "what do we need" not "ideas to make us as OP as in MOP"

[PowerOfTwo]

Guys... it's "what do we need" not "ideas to make us as OP as in MOP"

Typical memer... don't worry our dots don't snapshot anymore so that won't happen again... (For the record Lock wasn't OP, Unering Vision + Black Blood WAS... ALOT, like... how the fuck did blizz not see this coming lot, mages and shadowpriests where causing just as much bullshit with them)

[Ilir]

Typical memer... don't worry our dots don't snapshot anymore so that won't happen again... (For the record Lock wasn't OP, Unering Vision + Black Blood WAS... ALOT, like... how the fuck did blizz not see this coming lot, mages and shadowpriests where causing just as much bullshit with them)

Sure sure, warlocks definitely weren't op at all

[Sylar Hao]

Sure sure, warlocks definitely weren't op at all

We were a bit overtuned. Not overpowered.

[Voshon]

For demo, random idea here and probably way off base but what if our lvl 100 talents were reworked to transform our Felguard. Like hear me out here but having 3 choices based on the situation.

Lets say one talent was for single target and upgraded him to a fel lord. Beefing up his damage and giving him a AoE stun instead of a ST stun.

Second talent would be AE turning him into a pitlord. Cleaves 100% of its damage with a few AE spells to replace Mortal Strike and Charge.

The last talent would be a utility one giving us strong control for lets say PvP. Transforming the felguard into a Jailor. He would get a slight DPS buff to make up for his spells replacing Mortal Strike but still lower then the fel lord.

[Deleted]

I'd like soul swap back for aff, certainly with a cooldown and perhaps costing shards depending on the number of UAs being swapped

I miss soul swap too

[Sesshomaru]

Good news folks, Destruction is finally back on tracks!

Destruction Warlock Resource Changes in 7.2.5

As we've mentioned before, we’re making a number of changes to the resource model for Destruction Warlocks in the next patch. The goal is to create smoother, more granular, less random Soul Shard generation and make Chaos Bolt casts feel more impactful.

First, for Destruction Warlocks, Soul Shards are being split into parts of 10, which we’re currently calling Soul Shard Fragments. Mechanically, this will be similar to the Mists of Pandaria resource system of Burning Embers, except we want to go with a consistent Soul Shard visual, updated Soul Shard UI (work in progress), and name for the resource across all 3 Warlock specs. Some relevant spell changes:

• Incinerate generates 1 Soul Shard Fragment. Doubled on critical strikes. Fire and Brimstone (talent) will cause Incinerate to generate 1 Soul Shard Fragment per target hit, also doubled on critical strikes.
• Immolate periodic damage has a 50% chance to generate 1 Soul Shard Fragment. 100% chance on critical strikes.
• Conflagrate generates 6 Soul Shard Fragments.
• Dimensional Rift (artifact active) generates 3 Soul Shard Fragments.

The net result of these changes is that every baseline rotational damage spell will contribute to Soul Shard generation, pushing your resource forward at a steady pace.

Second, Soul Shard generation/refund rate is being reduced overall, mainly for the single-target rotation. However, this is coupled with major damage increases to both Soul Shard spenders - Chaos Bolt and Rain of Fire. Combined, this means that Chaos Bolts will be cast less frequently, but they will hit much harder:

• Soul Shard refund chance of Soul Conduit (talent) reduced to 12%. Soulsnatcher (artifact bronze trait) reduced to 3% per point.
• Chaos Bolt damage increased by 40%. Rain of Fire damage increased by 25%.

For the AOE rotation, Fire and Brimstone (talent) will cause Incinerate to generate Soul Shard Fragments per target hit, which would largely push Immolate out of the AOE rotation with enough targets. Alternately, if you want to go down the route of maintaining Immolate on all targets in a clumped AOE situation, Cataclysm (talent) will have reduced cooldown (30 sec) and slightly reduced cast time, making it easier for you to do so.

As usual, everything discussed here will continue to be iterated on during 7.2.5 PTR and may change based on further playtesting and feedback.

[Lucrece]

40% buff to CB is not even close to the buff destruction needs. It needs a Focused Chaos level buff with the change to frequency and the mere fact that destruction's single target DPS is abysmal.

Destruction can't be pigeonholed to a 2 target spec that does pretty horribly everywhere else. Especially now that they'll be nerfing Havoc (which is a good thing).

They still haven't addressed how worthless cry havoc is especially with this change, and they still won't addressed the god awful current design of lord of flames.

The doomguard/infernal as DPS cooldowns need to be re-evaluated for all warlock specs, that simple. They suck as DPS cooldowns. They cost resources, which no other cooldown requires for any other class, and they limit their usability to a single target or aoe but not both, unlike all other cooldowns who amplify all your abilities.

Several mof the pruned abilities need to make it back to warlock.

FnB needs to be baseline, soul harvest should be baseline and a static amount as proper DPS cd.

Burning rush needs to be baseline. Shadowfury should be instant cast.

Warlocks need a baseline interrupt just like any other caster.

Would be lovely if they uncoupled demons from specs besides demonology, so we could make use of the new succubus glyph in PvE...

[bufferunderrun]

So with blizzards quote I think we should agree that Warlocks need work since we missed the opportunity during the last patch cycle.

7.2.5 will have more class changes than 7.2 (which was the plan from the beginning), and this forum will likely have more to talk about, for both devs and players, once that PTR is underway. For the specs that do get significant changes, making sure our intent and goals are clear during the PTR is important to us, since it gets us the best feedback. As you've seen from the Rogue post, some specs have had tentative plans being formed even before 7.2 shipped, so they'd be ready for player testing with the maximum amount of time on 7.2.5 PTR.

Outside of afflictions artifact weapon and destructions lack of ST damage potential and Demonology Empower spam. What do you feel we need to improve damage/gameplay/mechanic wise?

Note: Let's keep this constructive.

Demo:
-Demonic emp should become a passive on proc talent
-Dreadstalker should become like dire beast/dire frenzy
-Darkglare should be a second pet like hati
-imp summoned remain until they die

[purebalance]

We're not in a horrible place right now. All of the specs are playable. I miss the long-term planning element that the class had with larger resources pools and multiple dark soul charges. I would much rather have had the 0-1000 energy have been the resource model we were standardized too. Purple combo points are lame.

What probably needs to change:
Aff and demo have too similar of toolboxes
Destro might be a little too cleavey-niche. The preformance gap from Elisande to Krosus is :/
We might need some new class fantasy, with DH's eating a chunk of it. There's gotta be some forbidden magics to delve into that have nothing to do with demons.

What I am hoping for:
GOODBYE DOOMGUARD, BRING BACK DARK SOUL
An actual kick
Sacrifice to be playable, and/or pets to be a talent for Aff/destro.
An alternative spender talent for UA and Chaos bolt. Those are cool spells and all, but variety is life.

What I expect to get changed:
Aff - Soul on mob death reduced from 100% chance (or Deadwind harvester reworked)
Aff - Effigy starts to move a little, and maybe adds itself to boss frames.
Demo - Demonic Empowerment becomes a 1min-ish cooldown.
Demo - Major rework in 8.0 to separate it from affliction, mechanically.
Destro - 'soul shard bits' that are still not as flavorful as embers.

Warlocks definitely need a baseline interrupt or silence that doesn't require the pet AND allow the felhunter to still also interrupt since if you're destro or demo it's dps loss to use.

[Cainium]

Im playing only aff, so:

- Effigy needs its own unit frame, so that addons can display its stats and it can be targeted by makros
- Multi-DoT up to 3 targets (4 with effigy) must be consistently more rewarding than spamming drain soul into one target. ATM this is still true (Batoanist), but with T20 this will change.
- We need to be more "efficiant" in PvP. Our damage requires setup, and can be negated by an 8sec CD every healer has. This needs tuning.
- With meeles having 3-4 ways to stop someone from casting its horrible unfun to play aff in arenas. Before I can even deal damage a warrior gets me down to 10% within seconds, and i need to "wait" for him to waste all his anti-caster tools to "start" dealing damage (not talking about applying "pressure" to his healer/team), just to realize he has them up with low CDs again.
- GoSac needs to return the special ability of the sacrificed demon
- Phantom singularity should be made useful. SC outclassed it due to soul shard returns from SoC.
- Baseline slow or at least a slow within the PvP tree needs to come back (Curse of exhaustion?)

Aside from that im fine with where aff is now.

[whackit]

Im playing only aff, so:

- Effigy needs its own unit frame, so that addons can display its stats and it can be targeted by makros.

You can macro dot the effigy since the release of legion, another tip is to focus the effigy if you want to see durations of the dots

[Werst]

Mobility needs to come up for all specs. That is one of the biggest qol irritations of playing the class vs anything else in the game. Aff and demo need a bit less ramp, their drawbacks just don't equate well in the balance equation of 2017 content. Which is to say there is no compensation for their extreme ramp up and poor mobility that can be offset or tuned in elsewhere to round out a strength vs weakness package.

Aff:
*agony no longer stacks and wia simply increases agony's damage.
*siphon life is auto applied with corruption when talented, duration not increased with AC
*effigy follows the lock has 100 yard range maybe a 5% bump with a 10% nerf to MG
*Phantom Singularity gets half the cooldown and radius, damage bump to be more competitive
*Haunt instant cast with a 20 base cooldown, applies agony and corruption (SL if talented)

Demo:
*darkglare becomes a permanent pet when talented
*imps and hounds retain their attacks until used when outside
*Implosion has imps auto suicide when they expire or mass suicide on button press (cleave talent)
*dreadstalkers cleave 30%
*DE castable on the move (watch carefully when mixed with power trip...)
*axe toss interrupts vs stun immune pvp mobs
*nudge demonwrath to be more competitive even if it is used 2+ targets.

Destro:
*CB at one shard if it's only buffed 40%, really needs more
*Flame rift talent simply becomes the rift
*ELT refreshed by any chaosbolt cast, eradication duration extended and buff increased
*CDF is castable on the move, no more interactivity with immolate
*Cataclysm = instant
*Infernal rain talent gets its own button and a 6 min cooldown.
*Mastery gives averaged defensive bonus always, tighter range for offensive spells
*ROF follows who it's targeted on, glyph for ground placement version
*RB gets increased once by conflagration but triple the amount.
*Shadowburn gives the shard refund and buff to conflagration damage but gives a 35% reduction in its cooldown

General:
*Burning rush has its cost stacking from nothing to present in 10 seconds. Mortal coil baseline as an interrupt but now strikes instantly. Shadow fury instant. Howl roots targets in pve.
*Each spec gets a mobility boost. Demo can have leap on a 24 cd, aff can have a movement speed from channeling DL/MG, destro gets a spirit walker grace with a sprint on a 30 sec for 5 or 60 for 10, glyph able...

Thus far the class has paid steeper trade offs for where it's strong than other classes in similar situations. Much of it is just qol that has no real power change beyond making it less frustrating to play. There needs to be a reason besides numbers someone would want to play the class.

[Mekkle]

Give Demonology a silence, that is all i want.

[PowerOfTwo]

The doomguard/infernal as DPS cooldowns need to be re-evaluated for all warlock specs, that simple. They suck as DPS cooldowns. They cost resources, which no other cooldown requires for any other class, and they limit their usability to a single target or aoe but not both, unlike all other cooldowns who amplify all your abilities.

Vendetta would like a word.... but you are right, fucking turrets are god awfull as cooldowns, can't count the times i've heard "X coming up soon, save cooldowns guys" ... yeah, i'll uh, definetly do... that *cries in affliction*

Sure sure, warlocks definitely weren't op at all

Ow they were, disgustingly so, but it was due to being able to abuze itemization not because of the class itsself without Vision / Black blood we woulda just been "fine"

[noaim]

One small change that would be nice is if Burning Rush gave a 15% or so passive runspeed buff with a use effect that sacrifices a portion of our current health to get a 50-70% runspeed boost for 5-10 seconds, instead of the toggling shit that it is now.

[Amonthar]

I am pretty happy with Destruction overall really.

I'd say only things I want is viable petless option, we have been sacking demon for years and somehow game did not implode on itself, I would like to have it back including Sac bonus ability we had.

Other than that it is a tuning matter of ST needing a small bump.

Everything else can live with. One more thing - in regards to the whole Embers hype, I hope their will not reintroduce Incinerate being a main Ember generator, despite this being a request one often hears, it will be a major pain in the ass mobility-wise.


In regards to Demo, I think it needs less trash and more substance, I would really prefer them to replace imps with something more substantial and satisfying. Demonic Empowerment is also pretty badly received and for a good reason, at very least it should see the change potentially making it an actual DPS CD instead of maintenance buff.

How hard would it be to allow Incenerate to be cast while moving? I have no issue with hardcasting Immolate and Chaos Bolt. If they made Incenerate the main generator then I think allowing movement for the cast would greatly help out.