Why Eye of Command is so good ?

[Meiffert]

By "not swapping" you're literally only missing out on auto-attack and CS damage which is almost negligible.

The thing is u dont need to swap in almost all of the fights.

Sure, I guess you just
- mass grip fire adds on Spellblade to cleave them from boss
- drag Krosus on top of the adds
- ask Tichondrius to not become unattackable during bat phase
- tank add on Star Augur on top of boss
- somehow bribe Elisande to stop teleporting away before rings so that you can cleave blue add
- trigger flame crashes on Illidan in melee

Swapping once or twice per fight doesnt make much difference [...] On almost all of these fight u also dont want the boss to live for that long

There are two issues here:

1. You typically want more damage when you swap, that's why you are swapping. If the high damage on the secondary target wasn't important, you would just let multidotters deal with them.
The fact that the trinket stop working exactly when you need damage the most every time is the biggest issue.

2. You make it sound as if the trinket was tens of thousands ahead of anything else like say DoS is for warriors.
A 900 EoC is only 3-5k ahead of a 900 stat stick or Skorpyron trinket. Even a few stack resets will drop it's value enough to not be worth it.
Moreover, a 5k dps difference on an 8 minute fight will shorten the fight by about 0.25 seconds. I just can't agree that it is more important than the extra damage on the important target swaps.

[Dawon]

Meh, now I (sadly?) got Eye of Command as well, a 895 with socket. When I sim it, it says that this EoC beats my 885 Skorpyron tinket on both "Light movement" AND "Hectic Cleave"... how can that be? Fine I can buy the Light Movement one and I will probably use it on ST fights from now on.. but how on earth can it sim higher on a cleave than the Skorp?

This damn trinket confuses me so much.. I have basically all top trinkets and it just makes everything so much harder to choose.. Almost better if RNGesus just gave me 2 of the top5 and that was it! :P

[Bonkura]

Meh, now I (sadly?) got Eye of Command as well, a 895 with socket. When I sim it, it says that this EoC beats my 885 Skorpyron tinket on both "Light movement" AND "Hectic Cleave"... how can that be? Fine I can buy the Light Movement one and I will probably use it on ST fights from now on.. but how on earth can it sim higher on a cleave than the Skorp?

This damn trinket confuses me so much.. I have basically all top trinkets and it just makes everything so much harder to choose.. Almost better if RNGesus just gave me 2 of the top5 and that was it! :P

I don't know how hectic cleave works but as long as you don't lose your 10 stacks EoC will always be one of the top trinkets available this tier. Skorpyron trinket doesn't actually offer that much on AoE fights.

[Dawon]

I don't know how hectic cleave works but as long as you don't lose your 10 stacks EoC will always be one of the top trinkets available this tier. Skorpyron trinket doesn't actually offer that much on AoE fights.

Skorp-trinket is on average 4% for me on Skorpyron/Botanist type of fights and around 2-3% on Trilliax/Krosus and 3% on Guldan (these are numbers from heroic). The big question.. will EoC outperform that? Or maybe I should even replace my other trinket, which is a 905 Entwined Elemental Foci?

Trinkets are a jungle with all the combos they offer! :/

[Doomie]

I never really moved off bosses very much because all I'd do is DS them and I use Zeal over Fires of justice and Divine hammer anyways, My add dps is just fine because of it, so I'd use CoF and my EoC and still do just fine without any issues.

[Wutangrza]

I never really moved off bosses very much because all I'd do is DS them and I use Zeal over Fires of justice and Divine hammer anyways, My add dps is just fine because of it, so I'd use CoF and my EoC and still do just fine without any issues.

You should pretty much never use Zeal with DH. I'd be amazed if that ever simmed even in the vicinity of TFoJ/DH.

[Balinus]

865 Eye of Command gives 1489 Strengt and total of 1500 crit IF U DONT SWITCH TARGETS. I have a stat stick with socket 870 with 1560 Strenght and 1255 crit total. I prefer the extra 60 Strenght and less 300 crit [ which isnt 1% crit ] BUT FULL TIME EVEN IF I CHANGE TARGETS. Am i wrong?? No of course.

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You should pretty much never use Zeal with DH. I'd be amazed if that ever simmed even in the vicinity of TFoJ/DH.

why is that.

[Dawon]

You should pretty much never use Zeal with DH. I'd be amazed if that ever simmed even in the vicinity of TFoJ/DH.

I'd love the reasoning behind that as well... how ever I sim and test, I cannot see Zeal worse than TFoJ... only time TFoJ pulls ahead for me is when sim:ing cloak with patchwerk.. but I dont trust a patchwerk sim and I dont have the cloak! :P

[AoinoMiku]

Sure, I guess you just
- mass grip fire adds on Spellblade to cleave them from boss
- drag Krosus on top of the adds
- ask Tichondrius to not become unattackable during bat phase
- tank add on Star Augur on top of boss
- somehow bribe Elisande to stop teleporting away before rings so that you can cleave blue add
- trigger flame crashes on Illidan in melee



There are two issues here:

1. You typically want more damage when you swap, that's why you are swapping. If the high damage on the secondary target wasn't important, you would just let multidotters deal with them.
The fact that the trinket stop working exactly when you need damage the most every time is the biggest issue.

2. You make it sound as if the trinket was tens of thousands ahead of anything else like say DoS is for warriors.
A 900 EoC is only 3-5k ahead of a 900 stat stick or Skorpyron trinket. Even a few stack resets will drop it's value enough to not be worth it.
Moreover, a 5k dps difference on an 8 minute fight will shorten the fight by about 0.25 seconds. I just can't agree that it is more important than the extra damage on the important target swaps.

First iam just trying to show people it is a good trinket better than a stat stick at the same ilvl
Second u clearly dk how to use retro paladin... on Spellblade u can cleave the fire ads while staying at the boss (assuming people are placing them correctly and not all over the place) using the Divine Tempest golden trait, that tich one plz stop trying to be funny ofc course u cant atk him but it is not like having a "better" trinket there would make a difference and on everything else swapping from the boss once or twice ( or going away for to long making the buff drop) wont make that much of a difference since u will get them fast enough. The only thing u got right there is elisande cause yeah kinda sucks on that one since she is always teleporting far away but it is still not that bad, assuming u do good crusades u will always have it at full stacks with 10+ stacks of crusade.

[Meiffert]

First iam just trying to show people it is a good trinket better than a stat stick at the same ilvl

Yes, I figured as much. I, on the other hand, am trying to show people that a stat stick of equal item level is a better trinket than EoC. Glad we cleared that up.

Second u clearly dk how to use retro paladin...

While that might be perfectly true, I don't see the connection between the trinkets and my inability to play the game.

on Spellblade u can cleave the fire ads while staying at the boss (assuming people are placing them correctly and not all over the place) using the Divine Tempest golden trait

You can hit some, but you will likely hit at least one more if you are not limiting your angle by having to target the boss. Staying on the boss also prevents you from interrupting.

that tich one plz stop trying to be funny ofc course u cant atk him but it is not like having a "better" trinket there would make a difference

Once again, your argument is that it doesn't matter what trinket you use anyway, which is somewhat irrelevant to the discussion.
Maybe it doesn't matter to you anymore and that is nice for you, but there are people who are still progressing on these bosses and trying to maximize their chances of getting a kill.

on everything else swapping from the boss once or twice ( or going away for to long making the buff drop) wont make that much of a difference since u will get them fast enough. The only thing u got right there is elisande cause yeah kinda sucks on that one since she is always teleporting far away but it is still not that bad, assuming u do good crusades u will always have it at full stacks with 10+ stacks of crusade.

Well, do you care to provide some sims or calculations to back your claims?
I can just as easily claim that a single buff reset in a fight will make EoC the worst trinket in the game. Just saying something doesn't make it true.

How many target swaps can you do on a Krosus or Gul'dan encounter to still make the trinket worth using?

[Deleted]

First iam just trying to show people it is a good trinket better than a stat stick at the same ilvl
Second u clearly dk how to use retro paladin... on Spellblade u can cleave the fire ads while staying at the boss (assuming people are placing them correctly and not all over the place) using the Divine Tempest golden trait,

You can... depending on placement of boss...
Usually the boss there is with her back towards the adds... in order to properly spin it into them you would need to stand in front of her OR basicaly keep turning around for DS.

Neither of the tactics is really something i would do...

You might find yourself dead if you stand infront of her and miss out on autoattacks if you keep turning around... and that is without considering divine hammers...

[AoinoMiku]

Yeah we place the ads in 2 lines and than just pull Spellblade on top of 1 or 2 ads so we make the most of any cleave, doing this will also allow u to sillence some ads without leaving the boss

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Well, do you care to provide some sims or calculations to back your claims?
I can just as easily claim that a single buff reset in a fight will make EoC the worst trinket in the game. Just saying something doesn't make it true.

How many target swaps can you do on a Krosus or Gul'dan encounter to still make the trinket worth using?

Well it isnt that ez to sim stuff like that or else we would be here would we? and iam providing this information based on experience and game knowlegde it is up to u to belive it or not.

[Deleted]

How many target swaps can you do on a Krosus or Gul'dan encounter to still make the trinket worth using?

Eye draws even with stat sticks on seven stacks (w/out chest) and it will also always have one stack. It takes ~18 seconds to get to seven. So, you'll rougly need 30-40 seconds above seven stacks, obviously depending on whether you swap, or it just resets.
For anyone who wants to use it: If it resets once every minute on average, a stat stick will most likely be the better choice. "Sadly", the perfect fight for EoC in my opinion is hardly relevant anymore: Ursoc, EoC can pretty much have it's full potential there.

On a related note: I'd love to see Rets (Arms and UH aswell) getting two stacks per hit with those trinkets (think of Chaos Talisman too!). DHs e.g. stack it twice as fast as we do.
At least the stacking trinket in ToS is based on time and not white hits (and it will most likely end up similarly to EoC: Insane in sims, but rarely useful in actual fights).

[Deleted]

As already mentioned by many.

It's not.

It's good because the sims are counting for 100% uptime of the buff, which in essence means that you're glued to 1 target the entire fight, which never happens and at the same time, causes whoring gameplay style, since swapping to priority targets that are obviously not your current target, is a massive dps loss and conduces in a lot of people, bad gameplay because of it.

It is one of the most controversial trinkets of the whole bunch.

And it in reality, IMHO, is one of the worst.

EDIT: Okay, let me be clear actually, for my class, the paladin, it is terrible. For some others that can stack it up very quickly, gain much more from it, but most are all better off with something else.

[Wutangrza]

I'd love the reasoning behind that as well... how ever I sim and test, I cannot see Zeal worse than TFoJ... only time TFoJ pulls ahead for me is when sim:ing cloak with patchwerk.. but I dont trust a patchwerk sim and I dont have the cloak! :P

There's a ton of downtime in the rotation and it's extremely less forgiving when you combine Zeal with DH. Zeal itself isn't *that* bad, but the issue is that DH is so much better than BoW (it's close to BoW even at one target, and pulls ahead significantly on 2+) that we run DH on every single fight in NH. Given that we always use DH, we need more HP generators and a smoother rotation which TFoJ lends itself to. TFoJ also has better synergy with our T19 4 set.

I'd be absolutely amazed if you can post a sim of some kind that shows DH + Zeal beating DH + TFoJ. For my gear (909 eq, bis legendaries, 4 set T19) they're not even in the same ballpark.

I mean look at every single top parse for every single encounter in NH. Every ret is using DH + TFoJ on every fight.

[Dawon]

There's a ton of downtime in the rotation and it's extremely less forgiving when you combine Zeal with DH. Zeal itself isn't *that* bad, but the issue is that DH is so much better than BoW (it's close to BoW even at one target, and pulls ahead significantly on 2+) that we run DH on every single fight in NH. Given that we always use DH, we need more HP generators and a smoother rotation which TFoJ lends itself to. TFoJ also has better synergy with our T19 4 set.

I'd be absolutely amazed if you can post a sim of some kind that shows DH + Zeal beating DH + TFoJ. For my gear (909 eq, bis legendaries, 4 set T19) they're not even in the same ballpark.

I mean look at every single top parse for every single encounter in NH. Every ret is using DH + TFoJ on every fight.

I tested myself a bit more (not sim) and it actually feels better with TFoJ, almost panicking tho as I have a hard to use up all Crusader procs... I'm not as geared as you (903, 4set but neither cloak or belt) but yeah, I think I have to admit that it might be better so I'll swap to this in next NH to see. Thanks!

Then the big question: My 905 Foci + 895 EoC(s) or swapping in 885 Claw + 880 FCM?

[Deleted]

Then the big question: My 905 Foci + 895 EoC(s) or swapping in 885 Claw + 880 FCM?

I'd say Foci every fight. As Second trinket use either EoC or Claw, depending on whether you can make use of EoC.
FCM actually doesn't sim or perform as well for us as it used to. It's still a decent trinket, but pretty much middle of the pack only (maybe slightly better with belt, but you don't have that).
Sims would actually be more accurate than my judgement, but it will propably tell you the same other than that EoC will sim very high. Just pretend EoC to be an int trinket on fights where you won't maintain the stacks.